Installing/Configuring of GTE ECU to run a GE engine

[Bean]

Right now this is in the proposal stage until someone antes up.

Me? I'm waiting on tax returns for a turbokit first. :D

It seems I was an idiot and stopped paying attention to the research; I blame school actually; but in the end, Dramon and I both developed this idea independantly. When considering that, it holds even more validity and possibility.

In this thread, or at least this part of it; we are going to discuss the proposal and probable parts lists and work needed to swap a GTE ECU into a GE car.

We'll start with why.

WHY?
Well lets see... KVF elimination; many ignition possibilities from keeping the stock distributor to waste-spark to DIS; aftermarket chipping documentation and just general overall better documentation for this ECU than the GE ECU.

KVF elimination and conversion to a hotwire-based air-metering system opens up new avenues for OBD1 guys. ESPECIALLY the use of cheaper mods that didn't work right originally (like the MAP ECU 1).

Next post will be the theory of the swap

[Bean]

Theory

The beauty of Toyota is their common component and signals usage. Words used between motor/engine systems usually stand for the same thing and the same concept. The GE and GTE motors are no different.

On the 2jz-GE motor, you have a distributor with no external power input, only 4 pins. 3 of these pins stand for 3 different pickups within the unit and are used to pinpoint where the crankshaft and camshafts are in their rotation.

The NE signal is used for crankshaft position and is a 24 tooth wheel and has one reluctor circuit (NE reluctor) that makes an AC signal wave whenever a wheel passes by. This threw me and Dramon early in our independant research. You can see in his thread:
http://forum.clubna-t.com/showthread.php?t=2952

and at the end of this thread:
http://www.clubna-t.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36026&posted=1#post36026

that we both got thrown.

The GTE also has a crankshaft position input (named NE) which is also a AC signal waveform. Unfortunately it is situated under/next-to the crankshaft and outputs its waveform based on a 12-toothed gear mounted on the crank itself. Well nuts!!! But thats where we both got thrown. The distributor on the GE (and the 7M CPS which also has the same NE signal) spins at half crank velocity :) A half rotation of 24 teeth is 12 teeth. This ensures the signal output type from the GE distributor NE pin is the same or similar-enough to the NE signal coming from the Crank Position Sensor on the GTE.

The other two pins on the distributor are for G1 and G2. These pins are single pulses that correspond with the ~TDC position of cylinder 6 and cylinder 1. Well guess what? The GTE motor has TWO cam position sensors that output a pulse signal based upon a tooth rotating on the camshaft itself. CPS 1 is for cyl 6 at ~TDC and CPS2 is for cyl 1 at ~TDC.

Granted the gathering of these pulses (NE, G1, and G2) are done in different fashion for each motor. One uses a single device to get these pulses, and the other uses 3. But the signal amplitudes would most likely be the only difference between them if there were any at all; and that can be adjusted. This means that the most difficult part could be solved more easily than most thought possible at first.

But what, doesnt the stock GTE system call for DIS? Well technically yeah, but in reality we can fix that. Signals for individual cylinders to fire can be bound together. 1+6,2+5,3+4 can be grouped for waste-fire and use an ignitor and coil-system specialized for waste-fire on a 6cyl car (like the 6G72 system). Or they can all be tied together and sent to the STOCK ignitor so that the distributor could be kept. This might be a nice step-up program for those that are doing the upgrade in piecemeal.

Next is theory continued on MAF and injectors

[Dramon]

http://forum.clubna-t.com/showthread.php?t=2952

Link to my thread.

[Bean]

Can't post much now because I gotta get off the PC so the gf can do her homework, but Mark brought up an interesting point

The JDM TT ECUs are MAP-based already and everything else is pretty much the same. It is configured for a 0 to 5v output from a 1.3bar (over atmosphere) MAP sensor. Common upgrades are to switch in a new map sensor and add in bigger injectors :)
3bar (including atmosphere) map sensors are dirt cheap and plentiful and would allow for 676cc injectors (or you could just run 660s or 720s with an emanage or safc)

[98mkiv]

and the safc is dirt cheap... ;)

[Bean]

Yup. Imagine paying $150 for a "useless" jdm ecu from a gte swap candidate, and $50 for a GM 3bar map sensor, and about 25 for an iat or cheaper for a jdm one. And 200 for an safc and you've got the electronics for a 700hp setup programmable by a simple computer plus a timing map optimized for boost. This makes for cheap power

[LexusFTW]

Ive been on the the search for a JDM IAT for a long time and I cant seem to find one.

[Bean]

I'd bet its the same as the one in the 1jz

[Gunnar]

I'm really excited about this working. I need to get my clutch situation sorted out then I'll gladly look at being a test bed for it.

[Dramon]

You'll have to worry about speed and boost cut too though.

[Bean]

yeah but those can be fixed. If I know how the signal works, I might be able to make something from radioshack parts... like a voltage clipper or regulator

speed cut is just stopping a signal to the ecu from the transmission

Boost cut is a function of voltage on the map sensor I think. The larger the map sensor's range, the higher boost you can run before it cuts fuel. This is an effect the 1jz guys see often when they swap their stock 1bar sensor for a 1.3bar from a JDM MKIV TT

For instance: Say there is a fuel cut at 4.8v from the stock 1.3bar map sensor and since MAP sensors have a linear output voltage; that yields about 18psi for a boost cut. If someone ran a 2bar map sensor, it would still only cut at 4.8v which is 28psi.

Modifying the voltage from the map sensor to run larger or smaller injectors will alter this though and so that would need to be taken into effect. Theres only so much ceiling you can have with this system; but we're talking about simple electronics here. Something that can modify injector pulsewidths like the emanage ultimate would have a field day since it already has the boost-cut eliminator and speed-cut eliminator onboard.

[Dramon]

Also what people do to get around the boost cut is implement a voltage clamp IIRC.

[Bean]

Also what people do to get around the boost cut is implement a voltage clamp IIRC.

Yup. I think radioshack has them, but if they don't I can build one with a resistor, a diode, and some wires :D I'd bet I could toss in a potentiometer on the parallel Voltage supply so that we could adjust the clamp voltage.

FYI: Looking for donations of parts!!! We need a JDM TT ECU to experiment on. If you've got one laying around, we'd really appreciate it :)

[98mkiv]

We have a donate feature up top, if someone donates $$ and wants to direct their donation to this project (or any other here) I will give the donation to the correct person (in this case Russell or Bean) so they can apply it to the project.

Mark

[Bean]

UPDATE: sent specs for GE to GTE conversion harness to autosportwiring.com and have purchased it. Its being made right now and should arrive by the end of next week.

[98mkiv]

Bean, what's this costing? I'd like to make a donation to support the effort and maybe other members might pony up some loot....

[Bean]

It was about ~$285 after shipping I was surprised at the cost because I was thinking it would be more expensive than the stock TT one because of the customizations.

[Bean]

Harness arrived today. I will be using this thread to document the JDM GTE ECU conversion project. For my datalogging project and other top secret projects, I'll be starting seperate threads for them.

Notice that several wires are extended. Some will be spliced together, others will be cut and connected to another pin, and some will be disconnected and connected to ignition parts. There will be lots of options for this project. I won't be able to test all of them at once, it will be an ongoing project.

First I will test a gm 3bar map sensor with a gm IAT, and will be using the stock distributor as a signal source and as a ignition method. This stage will require a IGF signal inverter since the GTE looks for an inverted signal from the GTE ignitor vs the GE ignitor (which is a duplicated square wave and not inverted). Eventually I will be transitioning to a SupraTT ignitor and COP or wasted spark; havent decided that path yet.
First run will also be with 550cc injectors from a 2nd gen RX-7. The JDM ECU will be looking for a 2.3bar map sensor and will be receiving a signal from a 3bar. This translates to roughly 565cc injectors or so; and so 100mgbluepill is selling me his SAFC to ensure I am able to tune it right. bens sc has graciously donated the gm 3bar map sensor.

If you have spare parts that you can donate or give a price reduction on, I am still looking for:
GM IAT or JDM GTE IAT
JDM 2JZ-GTE ECU
2 RX-7 550cc high impedance injectors

[98mkiv]

awesome, I can help you with some parts....

[hornet01]

Bean,
Just got my GTE in yesterday. It had an AUTO transmission attached to it that I wasn't even expecting. (I'd rather be lucky than good). Anyway, I won't be using the ecu for a while...or maybe even at all if I just get a US harness and ECU. Picture of swap and ECU below. Let me know if you want it.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jqmunos/2JZGTE/photo#5175014312162812114
http://picasaweb.google.com/jqmunos/2JZGTE/photo#5175014372292354322

[Bean]

Bean,
Just got my GTE in yesterday. It had an AUTO transmission attached to it that I wasn't even expecting. (I'd rather be lucky than good). Anyway, I won't be using the ecu for a while...or maybe even at all if I just get a US harness and ECU. Picture of swap and ECU below. Let me know if you want it.

http://lh5.google.com/jqmunos/R9FYGTgG4NI/AAAAAAAAAqw/PhuNC5Jr_Ao/2JZGTE%20on%20crate.jpg?imgmax=912
http://lh3.google.com/jqmunos/R9FYJzgG4RI/AAAAAAAAArQ/hru9VQGadkg/2JZGTE%20on%20crate%20ECU.jpg?imgmax=912

Surely! I can't see the pictures at all but I'm assuming its a JDM GTE ECU by the context clues :)

I'd be happy to buy it from you too.

[hornet01]

Bean,
I edited my post with pics cause I'm a retard.

[ocerrahyan]

Great work guys. Highly interested in this project

[kaos]

more info!!

[kmn5]

Bean, was the project successful?
please let us know
thanks

[jtamulis]

Paying close attention. I have a 1989 MKIII running the 2JZ-GE wiring, and I'm doing an Aristo 2JZ-GTE with stock twins swap on my GS300. I also have that 12 tooth gear thingy for timing, so we'll see how things go, and maybe I'll switch the MKIII to 2JZ-GTE ecu and stuffs.

Jeff

[SupraNA-T]

Why not use the JDM GE ECU? also map based

[captdale]

Hi guys - I did that and it works just fine. I posted the whole project on this forum. cd

[ocerrahyan]

Capt. Im interested bro. Only problem is, can the GE ecu control timing as well for boost applications? Do you have any videos of it running.

[captdale]

I used the TT ECU as it already knows exactly how to control everything and the GE ECU just flat does not. The GE distributor works just fine. Cut the top off and do it exactly like I did. Basically looks and acts just like a 7M-GTE distributor and fakes the ECU into thinking its a TT. This thing runs exactly like a TT with a single turbo. The only problem I have had with it is the Wastegate wants to flutter and thats another issue not associated with the GE to GTE mod. I was using a profec-b that worked perfect until it went tits up so am waiting for a new EBC to come in. I have 500 to 700 or so miles on it as a DD and am getting set up to take it to the 4th of July drags. I'll post some videos of that. Do a search on my user id and look at the posts. I'll be glad to answer any questions on this mod. Its actually easy and makes sense once you figure it out. You can PM me any time. cd

[itsmymkIIII]

has there been any updates on the project been?????

[aman24]

I used the TT ECU as it already knows exactly how to control everything and the GE ECU just flat does not. The GE distributor works just fine. Cut the top off and do it exactly like I did. Basically looks and acts just like a 7M-GTE distributor and fakes the ECU into thinking its a TT. This thing runs exactly like a TT with a single turbo. The only problem I have had with it is the Wastegate wants to flutter and thats another issue not associated with the GE to GTE mod. I was using a profec-b that worked perfect until it went tits up so am waiting for a new EBC to come in. I have 500 to 700 or so miles on it as a DD and am getting set up to take it to the 4th of July drags. I'll post some videos of that. Do a search on my user id and look at the posts. I'll be glad to answer any questions on this mod. Its actually easy and makes sense once you figure it out. You can PM me any time. cd

so how did you do that? and on what car?

[samy7606]

im new to all of this and to be honest, i dont understand much. if someone as already done this, is there a link that shows all of this step by step with pictures

[kaos]

every thread i've read about using TT ECU in NA never ends with results or writeups. the OP just disappears as though it never worked out.

[kmn5]

every thread i've read about using TT ECU in NA never ends with results or writeups. the OP just disappears as though it never worked out.

thats true....
seems to be a long running myth like bigfoot or the Lock Nesh monster, lol

[DrNick]

yeah good point. but since plenty of people build 1.5JZ engines using the GTE head and ECU then it must be possible if you swap enough parts over. its just that theres probably more work than its worth.

[kaos]

i am willing to do the work so long as it costs less than $2000 (aem)

[spoolxexo]

yeah good point. but since plenty of people build 1.5JZ engines using the GTE head and ECU then it must be possible if you swap enough parts over. its just that theres probably more work than its worth.

Not really!

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum and I want to say good job first of all.

I have tuned a lot of 4-cylinder cars.

I'm over it. Time to step up to the inline six. :)

This will be the exact way I will be builing my setup, but I digress...

The great thing about your OBD1 JDM GTE ECU is that it uses the same principal as your highly tuned Honda's, and until now DSM's and other Mazda ECU's.

They are all running the MAP setup on a 28-pin EPROM.

I actually have an old "BURN1" laying around, and If ther is some documentation of the .Bin and possibly a disassembly already, then AEM-type tuning power could be had for a couple hundred bucks.

I'm already searching...

[RyanV]

I'm looking at doing this as well.

I have a JDM Supra auto ecu and plan to use the stock distributor to keep things simple for now.

I'm looking at ECU, jdm map, intake temp sensor and either 89-92 rxy 460cc injectors or a 2.5 bar map with 525cc delphis injectors

I'm willing to knock out the wiring, I'm just calling on a few guys to help me with the wiring as far as what goes to where.

Far as making wire connections at the ecu, I had to solder a wire or two at the ecu during my 1JZ swap, and it's no big deal and hasn't cause any issues...its my daily driver for over 2 yrs now.

[-Defi-]

will someone please post a final result. this is getting rediculous! If there is a way to run the gte ecu like DSMLINK then im in! but for the love of god secrets dont make friends!

[Ali SC3]

every thread i've read about using TT ECU in NA never ends with results or writeups. the OP just disappears as though it never worked out.

thats true....
seems to be a long running myth like bigfoot or the Lock Nesh monster, lol

maybe they got it to work and they were too busy enjoying it to report back.
It has been done along time ago on these forums.
I can wire a GTE ecu onto a car with a stock harness in 1 hour, no bs.
Cut off maf connector, use wires to install MAP + IAT, move pin b68 to b62.
jump the 5 wires to the IGT wire at the ecu (for distributor).

then you just need to install your injectors.

check out this thread for proof
http://forum.clubna-t.com/showthread.php?t=7291

remember that was a long time ago, these days we know the best coilpacks are the vvti coils (like is300 ones), and they will fit under the stock intake manifold so you don't have to buy a FFIM to have good ignition anymore. also you can replace the distributor with a 7m cps when you go coilpacks. otherwise the principal is the same.

[ProjectSC]

do they have to be vvti? or will any is300 coils packs do

[Ali SC3]

I think all is300's came with vvti.