MegaSquirt ?'s

[dejacky]

Who has it or has any experience with it? How would this work on a turbo'd 2JZ-GE?

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

[2jzget]

Should work just fine.
I will tell you in DEC when I hook one up to a friends na-t and crank up the boost. Way up

[Brown Duckz]

On the cars I've witnessed it on :bigok:
A buddy here builds the systems.............

[96sc3]

seems very complicated though,,, but cheap.,,. :)

[Brown Duckz]

seems very complicated though,,, but cheap.,,. :)The local guy here makes it look easy.......... a few turbo-Volvos are using it currently, it's pretty advanced for the $.

[96sc3]

how much preassembled for the obd2's?

[2jzget]

how much preassembled for the obd2's?
????
It's a stand fully programable stand alone ecu

[Brown Duckz]

????
It's a stand fully programable stand alone ecuIs this a question or a statement? You can get the mega-squirt systems as "parts", I'm not sure if you can get them assembled as that would include wiring in your car.

http://www.msefi.com/

[96sc3]

Is this a question or a statement? You can get the mega-squirt systems as "parts", I'm not sure if you can get them assembled as that would include wiring in your car.

http://www.msefi.com/


yea, and i think there are certain parameters you must put in to make the system work for our cars.

[dejacky]

Is this a question or a statement? You can get the mega-squirt systems as "parts", I'm not sure if you can get them assembled as that would include wiring in your car.

http://www.msefi.com/ Yes, you can buy the assembled MegaSquirt latest version for ~$400 online. And yes, it's advertised as having full "stand alone" capabilities, etc.

[Idrewfelix]

It sounds like a nasty gay porno video....


I'll stick to my MAP-ECU

[Brown Duckz]

It sounds like a nasty gay porno video....


I'll stick to my MAP-ECUDon't knock it til' you try it! :fingersx:

[2jzget]

There are no plug and play harnesses for the 2jz or any other car except the Mustang if you know where to look. You can use the megasquirt in piggyback/ parallel mode with the stock ecu to provide just the fuel. This is much easier and lets you get experience with the system. You can later go to full stand alone with direct ignition to get rid of the dizzy.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/index.php
http://www.rs-autosport.com/
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&sotr=2&satitle=megasquirt&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=3%26fsoo%3D2&fgtp=&fmmk=&fmmd=&fylo=&fyhi=&mppfqy=megasquirt&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=

http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL817/1960855/5389677/112443573.jpg

[dejacky]

Has anyone progressed with the Megasquirt system on 2JZ or 1JZ based cars that daily drive perfectly? :)

[2jzget]

We went with the emanage ultimate instead. My buddy was affraid to take the stand allone jump.
Here is an install on a 7mgte:
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347502

[98mkiv]

it sounds awesome, but I tell you they need to fix the megasquirt website. Tooooo much info and you get paralyzed. Other than that it seems like a very capable system for very short $.

The emanage ultimate is a nice system as well, esp for going DIS, takes some wiring and some patience, but offers full standalone capabilites with 5% of the complexity and you still have the baseline tune of the OE ECU.

[dejacky]

just FYI for anyone else wondering; a guy on supramania.com is running this successfully on his 2JZ-GE na-t car with a Ford EDIS ignition setup. He's still tinkering with the tune, but it's nice to hear someone running this so far!

[98mkiv]

I'd really like to see someone run it here, and post a decent baseline map and some install guidelines (like wiring diagrams, etc). It has all the bells and whistles, but the DIY aspect is intimidating for most people. I've been watching it for quite some time and it's a great box. And there is NO way to beat the price. Even the prebuilt/tested units on eBay are totally reasonable.

[Jer]

just FYI for anyone else wondering; a guy on supramania.com is running this successfully on his 2JZ-GE na-t car with a Ford EDIS ignition setup. He's still tinkering with the tune, but it's nice to hear someone running this so far!

Does this forum not have a search function? I didn't see one and even registered thinking it was disabled for guests. Still don't see anything.

What section is the information regarding this located in?

[Dramon]

I'd do this as an option but college + standalone = bad idea.

[Bean]

Same here, college takes up a lot of time and I gotta have a reliable daily driver :) If my car goes down, I don't have a ride since my Nissan is broke.

[Forcefed86]

I'm familer with setting MS up on the DSM's. It's very easy and all the systems I have used I use as a piggyback fuel control. And leave the factory controlled timing and computer. I just splice the signal between each injector and route it to the MS instead. Takes about 4 hours to install. It is very easy and the instructions are great. If you have an LM-1 WB02 you can use the autotune feature and have the car tuned in a day or so of street driving. I highly reccomend it. It's just as good as most stand alone units and at 1/3 the price.

Just take your time and read the manual... It tooke me about a weekend to get it installed and get aquanted with the tuning software.

[Bean]

Well it requires replacing the ignition setup completely and getting one installed plus getting all the needed sensors to line up can be very difficult. It isn't so simple on a 2jz-ge car.

A DIY thread on the Megasquirt would be nice for the 2jz-ge. Even if it doesn't involve actual installation; it could involve discussion on the various required components... and then someone could make a leap to actual installation eventually.

[Jer]

I'm still trying to find the thread/info on that Ford setup.

[Forcefed86]

Well it requires replacing the ignition setup completely and getting one installed plus getting all the needed sensors to line up can be very difficult. It isn't so simple on a 2jz-ge car.

A DIY thread on the Megasquirt would be nice for the 2jz-ge. Even if it doesn't involve actual installation; it could involve discussion on the various required components... and then someone could make a leap to actual installation eventually.

I disagree. :)

I guess everyone has there own idea of difficult. The 2jz is no different than any other engine. It works the same as any other. And It's just as easy to install it on a 2jz as it is to install it on any other car. You are supplied with a color coded wire loom and instructions that tell you exactly what wire goes to what sensor. It's as simple as following the directions. You only have to tap like 4 sensors. To me that does not qualify as difficult.

You don't need to wire it into your ignition either. You would benefit from it, but it is defiantly not required. I run factory lexus ecm with a VPC and SAFCII using factory timing settings. I run 25lbs of boost on pump gas. And make over 500RWHP in my NA-t. It's all in the tune. I run meth injection so I don't have to worry about the factory timing being a little high.

[Bean]

I disagree. :)

I guess everyone has there own idea of difficult. The 2jz is no different than any other engine. It works the same as any other. And It's just as easy to install it on a 2jz as it is to install it on any other car. You are supplied with a color coded wire loom and instructions that tell you exactly what wire goes to what sensor. It's as simple as following the directions. You only have to tap like 4 sensors. To me that does not qualify as difficult.

You don't need to wire it into your ignition either. You would benefit from it, but it is defiantly not required. I run factory lexus ecm with a VPC and SAFCII using factory timing settings. I run 25lbs of boost on pump gas. And make over 500RWHP in my NA-t. It's all in the tune. I run meth injection so I don't have to worry about the factory timing being a little high.

I guess everyone has their own idea of actually running megasquirt. I'm talking about running as a full STANDALONE, not as a piggyback. You have to tap a lot more than 4 sensors :) 6 injectors, water temp, iacc configurations, ignition, air-metering system (MAP and IAT sensors), and I'm sure several that I haven't thought about.

Since you're experienced with installing megasquirt as a piggyback, why not make a thread about it? Like how to do it, info resources, etc?

[Jer]

Since you're experienced with installing megasquirt as a piggyback, why not make a thread about it? Like how to do it, info resources, etc?

Especially since I'm not only interested in MS on an NA-T but also methanol injection. You basically have done what a lot are looking to do so this thread would be much appreciated by many I'm sure.

[Forcefed86]

I guess everyone has their own idea of actually running megasquirt. I'm talking about running as a full STANDALONE, not as a piggyback. You have to tap a lot more than 4 sensors :) 6 injectors, water temp, iacc configurations, ignition, air-metering system (MAP and IAT sensors), and I'm sure several that I haven't thought about.

Since you're experienced with installing megasquirt as a piggyback, why not make a thread about it? Like how to do it, info resources, etc?

There is nothing I can say that isn't already said in the manual and online on there websight. Here is all the info you'd need to know.

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=88246


If I had choosen to run it on my car I'd be glad to. But for "steetability" I chose to use the factory ECM. And I'd suggest to anyone to do the same as far as timing is concerned unless your going all out "race car".

If you can't splice in a few wires then you don't have anybusiness trying to put a standalone unit (or any other) in your car in the first place. I ran a speed density setup. I needed AIT, TPS, & MAP. (which is supplied on the MS unit). The other sensors are not necessary if you keep your factory computer like coolant temp, ign, fast idle, fuel pump etc.... Then of course the injectors which can all be pulled from the main ECM harness by the computer.

Im not trying to put anyone down, I'm just saying it really is not a difficult install.

http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/extwir.gif

[Jer]

I actually like the idea of retaining the factory ECM for just the reasons you stated. My car will see track time once or twice maybe once it's done but will get LOTS of miles around town so I want it as streetable as possible. I want my car to be such that my wife can take it to work if need be for some reason and it would behave the same as her Camry (within reason of course) when not deep into the gas peddle. If you could start a thread discussing your setup and what parts you have used with pictures and details that would be awesome. Curious which methanol kit you went with or if you built your own unit. Is it possible to have the MS control this along with the rest or is your unit stand alone self controlled and progressive? Thanks!

[Forcefed86]

If you could start a thread discussing your setup and what parts you have used with pictures and details that would be awesome. Curious which methanol kit you went with or if you built your own unit. Is it possible to have the MS control this along with the rest or is your unit stand alone self controlled and progressive? Thanks!

So technically this should be a new thread, but I think it could be addressed quickly here.

My setup is very common, nothing that hasen't been written up before. I'd just be rewriting it. I'm running 550cc injectors (secondary injectors from 3rd gen rx-7's) 255 walbro fuel pump. Then a VPC with 550 chip, and an SAFCII. I used an AEM WB02 to tune the SAFCII. Thats pretty much it.

As far as the meth injecton goes went with devils own progressive controller with an 9gpm nozzle. The alky just taps into the MAP sensor and is it's own unit. Heres my install...

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324168

[Bean]

So what you're saying is, you DONT run Megasquirt at all? That thread is for a complete standalone.

I think we have a huge communication gap here...

I assumed you were running Megasquirt and that we were speaking of running a MS as a piggyback. The info that I've found for the MS as a piggyback is very very little. Which leaves a standalone, and its not just splicing wires :)

I understand all of the instructions to install; I've read it before... for ME its not that hard. But if you think the typical Turbokit installer can do what you just posted; you're insane and completely out of touch with reality. For a typical DIY, that kind of work is stuff of nightmares. Have you ever done anything like that? I mean a VPC install is cake; there's been a ton of people that have done it before and its well documented. There are NO documents with a GE install of a MS of ANY sort. Again I think you're out of touch here...

I don't even like the idea of having to hack my own harness. What happens if something goes bad wrong? My DD is screwed then.

I think the best thing to do is get a half fields-type harness. And splice the MS DB37 into that. The distributor signal is easily available at the ECU harness and the unit can be configured to run off the stock distributor since the GE unit works with a VR. Besides running the MAP sensor and IAT sensor wiring, the stock harness could be utilized for the most part. Getting the tach to work might be a pain since the GE tach works on a circuit with the coil input trigger.

A MS harness could be built and documented. This would help a ton of people.

[Jer]

So technically this should be a new thread, but I think it could be addressed quickly here.

My setup is very common, nothing that hasen't been written up before. I'd just be rewriting it. I'm running 550cc injectors (secondary injectors from 3rd gen rx-7's) 255 walbro fuel pump. Then a VPC with 550 chip, and an SAFCII. I used an AEM WB02 to tune the SAFCII. Thats pretty much it.

As far as the meth injecton goes went with devils own progressive controller with an 9gpm nozzle. The alky just taps into the MAP sensor and is it's own unit. Heres my install...

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324168

Oh, I think I confused you w/the other guy because I thought you had the MegaSquirt system. I'm trying to find more NA-T specific info on the MegaSquirt setup. I'll check out your setup too and see what you went with. Thanks.

[Forcefed86]

So what you're saying is, you DONT run Megasquirt at all? That thread is for a complete standalone.

I do believe the thread is in the

" Other devices Standalone ECU, other piggybacks" section.

And was titled "MegaSquirt ?'s"

And the question was....

Who has it or has any experience with it? How would this work on a turbo'd 2JZ-GE?

No where does it say anything about a standalone only system.

I was interested in the thread and have had experience with it in the past. Yes I have installed MS on my eclipse as an injector controller only. I noticed you said it could be difficult and went off ranting about full stand alone systems. I disagree....

Then I get you claiming specifically that it's not easy on a 2jz. I fail to see how it's would be anymore complex than installing it on any other car. And went on to explain that It does not have to be used as a full standalone. Nowhere does the original poster say anything about using it as a full stand alone system. Only you do. And I commented to help him. I just wanted to chime in and express how simple it is to install one of these systems. I don't want the MS system to get a bad wrap from people that have never even used it. And by explaining this maybe we will start having MS powered cars on this board.


I think we have a huge communication gap here...

I assumed you were running Megasquirt and that we were speaking of running a MS as a piggyback. The info that I've found for the MS as a piggyback is very very little. Which leaves a standalone, and its not just splicing wires :)

I understand all of the instructions to install; I've read it before... for ME its not that hard. But if you think the typical Turbokit installer can do what you just posted; you're insane and completely out of touch with reality. For a typical DIY, that kind of work is stuff of nightmares. Have you ever done anything like that? I mean a VPC install is cake; there's been a ton of people that have done it before and its well documented. There are NO documents with a GE install of a MS of ANY sort. Again I think you're out of touch here...

I don't even like the idea of having to hack my own harness. What happens if something goes bad wrong? My DD is screwed then.



It doesn't matter if I have MS on my car. Ive installed it as a piggy back in other cars. a 2j is no different. That is my point. If you haven't found any info then you haven't been looking. Everything you need is on the MS web sight. You just have to read. And if you can follow simple directions It's a piece of cake.

People seem to be afraid of wiring for some reason. I don't see how you would be willing to rip off the head of your car and tear it down for a turbo swap, but splicing in a few wires is rocket science? I believe your the one that has lost touch w/ reality my friend. Why do you think you need a specific jz install document is beyond me. It's an engine, it pumps air and fuel. Same as any other. Uses the same sensors etc. If it works on a fuel injected speed density eclipse it will work on a supra, viper, mustang etc....

What if something goes wrong?

Hmm... well if you followed the instructions, soldered your connections good use shrink wrap and don't half-ass anything. Then you'd be just as likely to have problems w/ a factory setup....

Bottom line, your putting a turbo on a none turbo car and pushing it hard. Things can always happen. If you don't have enough mechanical/electrical knowledge to wire in a MS as fuel control, then you shouldn't be touching or modifying your car at all. You should leave it to professionals, or go buy a honda.

I think the best thing to do is get a half fields-type harness. And splice the MS DB37 into that. The distributor signal is easily available at the ECU harness and the unit can be configured to run off the stock distributor since the GE unit works with a VR. Besides running the MAP sensor and IAT sensor wiring, the stock harness could be utilized for the most part. Getting the tach to work might be a pain since the GE tach works on a circuit with the coil input trigger.
A MS harness could be built and documented. This would help a ton of people.

The 2j could be configured to work the IGN control as well. My question to you would be why?

I like all my factory dash and gauges to work. And I don't need to retard timing with the meth injection. So bypassing this seems like a win-win situation here. Esp when we're talking street cars and ease of tune-ability.

Again this is all just my opinion....

[98mkiv]

I think there are a lot of good points raised in this thread. I think it would be good to explore the megasquirt as both a standalone and a piggyback solution. To me the megasquirt really needs to be explored here - people here want to boost on a budget. ClubNA-T is about getting boosted on a budget.

If it is as simple as getting a wiring diagram and creating a wiring chart for standalone and/or pggiyback configurations, this would be very useful to all of us here.

Sharing maps would be the next logical step. I think the MS could be a category on it's own.

Mark

[Jer]

I think there are a lot of good points raised in this thread. I think it would be good to explore the megasquirt as both a standalone and a piggyback solution. To me the megasquirt really needs to be explored here - people here want to boost on a budget. ClubNA-T is about getting boosted on a budget.

If it is as simple as getting a wiring diagram and creating a wiring chart for standalone and/or pggiyback configurations, this would be very useful to all of us here.

Sharing maps would be the next logical step. I think the MS could be a category on it's own.

Mark

I agree with Mark here. MS is exactly what this forum is all about. I considered it about a decade ago for my Eclipse and went a different route. For whatever reason I had kind of put it out of my mind as far as lists of options and am glad I came across this to get me thinking about it again. They worked very well back then and have made some significant improvements on the design since. I'm a hands on guy and always have been. Of course I like to save money but the knowledge that comes with doing something more hands on like this is what I enjoy. I have a brand new MAP ECU sitting in my garage that I will probably sell after doing some more reading on the MS setup. Not sure when it will happen but I will take pictures and try to do a write up as I go. Don't hold your breath though as I've been wanting to go turbo for years now and things keep coming up so we'll see what happens.

[98mkiv]

I agree with Mark here. MS is exactly what this forum is all about. I considered it about a decade ago for my Eclipse and went a different route. For whatever reason I had kind of put it out of my mind as far as lists of options and am glad I came across this to get me thinking about it again. They worked very well back then and have made some significant improvements on the design since. I'm a hands on guy and always have been. Of course I like to save money but the knowledge that comes with doing something more hands on like this is what I enjoy. I have a brand new MAP ECU sitting in my garage that I will probably sell after doing some more reading on the MS setup. Not sure when it will happen but I will take pictures and try to do a write up as I go. Don't hold your breath though as I've been wanting to go turbo for years now and things keep coming up so we'll see what happens.


Probably because that was 10 years ago. I point this out because they have put a huge amount of time into this product, it's free (opensource basically) and it's very very very robust at this point. They have outlived most companies that sell products primarily because they make next to nothing on it.

I really want to see someone do an install guide for this here.

Mark

[Bean]

Hmm... well if you followed the instructions, soldered your connections good use shrink wrap and don't half-ass anything. Then you'd be just as likely to have problems w/ a factory setup....


The 2j could be configured to work the IGN control as well. My question to you would be why?

I like all my factory dash and gauges to work. And I don't need to retard timing with the meth injection. So bypassing this seems like a win-win situation here. Esp when we're talking street cars and ease of tune-ability.

Again this is all just my opinion....

No thats not true. Because a factory setup doesn't have problems out of the box. You don't seem like you've had your ass chewed off by enough supervisors or been bitten back there or kicked in the balls when you're down. There is ALWAYS a what-if. My SC is the car I drive to school and the car I drive to work. I can't afford a what-if. So doing it before anyone else has isn't so easy. When making a design, you've got to be completely sure; because if something happens, you're liable in some way or another. Its a lesson to learn.

Not everyone runs meth injection btw. Stock timing is very bad for higher boost levels (GE and GTE). I know thats your position, but again, you're not placing yourself in other people's shoes.

Mark, hopefully this weekend, I'm going to start a wiring layout for a theoretical setup and I'll probably pick up a field's type harness soon enough to try it. An install guide isn't going to be so easy. There are a lot of little settings and stuff that have to be done for specific motors. I'm going to try MS on my car possibly eventually, but I'm not going to just lay it out there and say it'll be super easy. First setup is going to be a base turbokit on stock fuel/stock ecu.

[Forcefed86]

:lol:

The factory setup will have problems. All cars have problems. If you wire it correctly it is no more likely to malfunction than the stock ECM. MS has been around a long time and is a very reliable product. Just as much so as the OEM computer IMO.

All cars have a "what if". If you can't afford it then you can't afford to drive. And IMO you should not try to turbo an NA car for a reliable daily driver unless you have the funds to fix "what if's" . Thats your own personal problem. I myself have never been stranded in my SC. But I'm not naive enough to believe that day will never come and U shouldn't be either.


Truth be told I don't care to argue anymore. I know I can make it work, and without plug and play harnesses and write up's done by others. I know how and engine works and what the sensors that control that engine do. So installing it on any engine would not be difficult. Understanding the software is far more difficult than installing the system.

So I suppose I don't care if you believe, or agree, with me or not. I wear my own shoes... unlike most who believe if something has never been done they cant do it. Plug and play is not a necessity....

[98mkiv]

there is no reason to argue, I think the MS is a great unit, but until someone tries it here there is no proof. Bean has the right idea, make up a wiring diagram first. Then we will test the wiring. Once that's done we can worry about maps, tuning, etc. Just getting it to start is the FIRST step.

Forcefed, stick around, we'll be needing your help with this :)

[Forcefed86]

there is no reason to argue, I think the MS is a great unit, but until someone tries it here there is no proof. Bean has the right idea, make up a wiring diagram first. Then we will test the wiring. Once that's done we can worry about maps, tuning, etc. Just getting it to start is the FIRST step.

Forcefed, stick around, we'll be needing your help with this :)

I'll throw up a diagram later. Although All you'd have to do is look at this image
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/v3ext_wiring.gif

and an ECM image....

http://www.mkiv.com/manual/manualtt/terminals_of_ecm/toe1.jpg


and match up which wires go where.

[98mkiv]

Bean has opened up a new thread for the MS wiring, maybe you guys can get this going?

I'd like to setup a wiki page on this, it's one of the plugins I want to work on, this would be great for that.

mark

[Bean]

Those terminals are for the GTE, the GE is slightly different; especially with ignition signaling.

:lol:

The factory setup will have problems. All cars have problems. If you wire it correctly it is no more likely to malfunction than the stock ECM. MS has been around a long time and is a very reliable product. Just as much so as the OEM computer IMO.

All cars have a "what if". If you can't afford it then you can't afford to drive. And IMO you should not try to turbo an NA car for a reliable daily driver unless you have the funds to fix "what if's" . Thats your own personal problem. I myself have never been stranded in my SC. But I'm not naive enough to believe that day will never come and U shouldn't be either.


Truth be told I don't care to argue anymore. I know I can make it work, and without plug and play harnesses and write up's done by others. I know how and engine works and what the sensors that control that engine do. So installing it on any engine would not be difficult. Understanding the software is far more difficult than installing the system.

So I suppose I don't care if you believe, or agree, with me or not. I wear my own shoes... unlike most who believe if something has never been done they cant do it. Plug and play is not a necessity....

How does a factory setup have problems? Maybe we're talking about two different things here. My car, when I purchased it, ran great. Thats what I'm talking about. The MS might be very reliable but I don't see how you can claim that its as reliable as an OEM computer. I don't know how much you know of the OEM computer (its pretty damn slick actually) but being that it was designed in 1991, its doing pretty damn well with electronics designed 17 years ago.

"Thats your own personal problem. I myself have never been stranded in my SC. But I'm not naive enough to believe that day will never come and U shouldn't be either."
Um, thats EXACTLY what I was telling you. Being confident is one thing, but being overconfident is another. I can't afford downtime with my car and even though I know without a doubt that I could do it (this is a cakewalk compared to my Semiconductor and Microelectronic classes), I am not confident enough to say that I could do it exactly right the first time, or at least enough where I could drive the car to and from work (on the interstate) and to school. THAT is what I'm referring to. I don't have another car to drive in case something goes wrong; if my SC goes at this point, I'm f-ed :) Do you understand what I'm getting at here? I have the money to fix it :) I've got money in savings for these what-ifs, but money is only part of the equation. Time is a bigger factor for me.

I was speaking of BUILDING a pnp harness so that I could do the work on the side without taking a car down. I'd also like to make it possible for the car to be turned back to stock easily if something went wrong.

I think our argument here was a misunderstanding; we've both got very different priorities I'm assuming. And can you post some pictures of those headlights on your SC? What did you do exactly?


Anyone know where Dramon is? I need his research capabilities for viability of using 7M parts.

[Dramon]

:lol:

The factory setup will have problems. All cars have problems. If you wire it correctly it is no more likely to malfunction than the stock ECM. MS has been around a long time and is a very reliable product. Just as much so as the OEM computer IMO.

All cars have a "what if". If you can't afford it then you can't afford to drive. And IMO you should not try to turbo an NA car for a reliable daily driver unless you have the funds to fix "what if's" . Thats your own personal problem. I myself have never been stranded in my SC. But I'm not naive enough to believe that day will never come and U shouldn't be either.


Truth be told I don't care to argue anymore. I know I can make it work, and without plug and play harnesses and write up's done by others. I know how and engine works and what the sensors that control that engine do. So installing it on any engine would not be difficult. Understanding the software is far more difficult than installing the system.

So I suppose I don't care if you believe, or agree, with me or not. I wear my own shoes... unlike most who believe if something has never been done they cant do it. Plug and play is not a necessity....

...


But anyways bean, also if you have any questions and I don't know if this will help or not but lexusftw and I have access to a Lexus SC300/400 wiring manual courtesy of dx3.

[98mkiv]

rather than a PNP harness you could do a set of connectors that you work into the stock harness. Then a set of mating connectors to go to the MS. If the MS shits, you just install a jumper harness that connects the stock harness back to itself.

stock:

ecu-----everything else

new:

ECU---- connector | connector-----MS-----connector|connector----- everything else

if the MS shits:

replace:

| connector-----MS-----connector|

with
| connector------------connector|

That is what the AEM FI/C does, they even include the delete jumper, pretty considerate. :)

[Dramon]

rather than a PNP harness you could do a set of connectors that you work into the stock harness. Then a set of mating connectors to go to the MS. If the MS shits, you just install a jumper harness that connects the stock harness back to itself.

stock:

ecu-----everything else

new:

ECU---- connector | connector-----MS-----connector|connector----- everything else

if the MS shits:

replace:

| connector-----MS-----connector|

with
| connector------------connector|

That is what the AEM FI/C does, they even include the delete jumper, pretty considerate. :)

Thats a lot of work for a DIYer.

[Bean]

Thats a lot of work for a DIYer.

Yeah, and in effect it would be the same. It'd be a half field's harness with a bunch of open wires connecting into the FEMALE plug so that the stock harness would plug into it. Wire up the MS on the field's harness and then plug it into your existing system. A conversion harness could be made for the 7M-CPS (its still just 4 wires, but in a different order) and the signals could be intercepted from the stock harness that way.

Only MS signals going to an ignitor or the driven signals from the MS going directly to the coils would be needed to be added for that. The stock wiring could be used for an IAT, or its wires could be run along with the MAP Sensor wires if an in-cabin one is used. Most MS2 setups have the map sensor onboard and so a vacuum line is run to the unit. To get it around, the stock ECU could be plugged back in and the 2jz distributor reinstalled and the MAF sensor plugged back in.

[Dramon]

How much HP are you shooting for anyways? It might be a cheaper and more reliable solution to figure out how to get a GTE ECU to run on our cars and you can piggyback them to 600hp reliably.

[Jer]

So the MegaSquirt can be used to control the ignition if you went distributorless too? That's another pro for the MS setup.

[98mkiv]

How much HP are you shooting for anyways? It might be a cheaper and more reliable solution to figure out how to get a GTE ECU to run on our cars and you can piggyback them to 600hp reliably.

I think this is easier than you think but:

gte ecu
ignitor
ignition coils
resistor pack
injectors(maybe)
few sensors
resistors for sensors that are deleted
missing cps/crank triggor

VPC or similar to delete MAF.

I don't know that it buys you all that much.

[LexusFTW]

wont you also need a TT tranny to run the GTE ECU? Unless you're 5speed.

[Bean]

I think this is easier than you think but:

gte ecu
ignitor
ignition coils
resistor pack
injectors(maybe)
few sensors
resistors for sensors that are deleted
missing cps/crank triggor

VPC or similar to delete MAF.

I don't know that it buys you all that much.

Well with the ignition coils, one couldnt use the GTE coils on a GE motor with the stock manifold since they don't fit under it.
But using the Mitsubishi setup (coils and ignitor) with the 7M CPS might work if the 7M CPS signal can be adapted for the GTE ECU and just use it in waste-spark mode. True sequential ignition under a GE manifold might be a little difficult.

Documentation for the 7M CPS is readily available. It has a 26-tooth trigger wheel for the crank position and a 2? tooth trigger wheel for the tdc positions of cylinder 6 and cylinder 1. I havent studied the GTE much at all; but it has a cam position sensor embedded in the head right? I think Dramon found that documentation at some point. I think we can review that and figure it out.

But after reading up on Mark's experience with the Emanage Ultimate, and the 3000gt boards experience with it (they have karman vortex as well), it seems the newer revisions can definitely switch over to speed density and also switch over to waste and sequential ignition. It also directly controls the injectors via pulse-width, which is far superior to just a air-flow signal modification like the VPC does. Switching to speed density with the EU is actually pretty nifty and DOES work if you datalog your system when it uses the MAF before you make the switch.

So thats 3 ways to go there and all of them have pros/cons and could offer the user a lot of options.

[Bean]

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/engine_codes/obd1_codes.html

There's a link to the OBD1 codes for the GTE motor.

Looks like the GTE gets inputs of G1, G2, and NE too. And here's what I found:

NE signal does not pulse 12 times to ECM during the interval between G1 and G2 pulses.


I'm checking out the G signals now to see what cylinders of TDC that they pulse on. If its cyl 1 and 6, then we're golden.

EDIT: Read below
Seems the NE signal is only 12 pulses per revolution. But I dunno if the NE signal on the GE is 12,13, or 26. Imma keep reading, just trying to keep this up to date

[98mkiv]

wont you also need a TT tranny to run the GTE ECU? Unless you're 5speed.

NO. The GTE ECU (AT) will run just fine with NO tranny. I ran my black sup with a stock aristo AT tranny for some time before going to AEM standalone. No issues.

I'm going to run the FI/C on the IS. If I had time I'd put the EU on it as well, but I don't see me having that kind of time :( I need a tech to MOLD AND MENTOR (cute blonde girls only please)

Mark

[Bean]

G1 and G2 signals are the same. They work differently on the mechanical side, but the output signal is the same

http://www.97supraturbo.com/Supra%20Scans/New%20MKiV%20Features.pdf

Pg. 110
Each time the camshaft rotates, the air gap between the pickup coil and the protrusion integrated onto the camshaft
is varied. This causes the magnetic flux passing through the pickup coil to increase and decrease, generating an
electromotive force. Since the voltage generated when the camshaft protrusion approaches the pickup coil is the
opposite of when it departs, an alternate electrical current is produced. The G1 timing rotor is positioned so that the
camshaft protrusion is closest when the No. 6 piston is at its compression TDC, and the G2 timing rotor is positioned
so that the camshaft protrusion is closest when the No. 1 piston is at its compression TDC. By detecting this voltage
variation, the cylinders and their TDC positions (basic positions) can be determined.

TPS output is the same, anyone know anything about the water temp sensor? Tachometer might not work correctly and the signal be setup for it. MAF wiring could be redone easily.

I say, on a test conversion, one needs to keep the stock GTE MAF and prove it can run. One would need 550cc injectors though to keep it normal.

EDIT: Seems the NE signal is only 12 pulses per revolution. But I dunno if the NE signal on the GE is 12,13, or 26. Imma keep reading, just trying to keep this up to date
The crankshaft position sensor consists of a magnet, coil and iron core, and is mounted onto the right side of the oil
pump body as illustrated below. The timing rotor is installed on the guide area of the crankshaft timing pulley.
The timing rotor attached to the crankshaft has 12 teeth, enabling the pickup coil to produce 12 pulses per each
revolution of the crankshaft. Each 30 degrees of the crankshaft angle can thus be detected by these pulses.

EDIT2: Well it seems like the Nippondenso CAS data from the MS-Extra site might have been WRONG. Here is a thread that DaveH posts in:
http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,15940.0.html

Where it mentions setting the spark teeth to 12 to get it to run. 12 spark teeth in one revolution perhaps? This refers to getting the distributor to work as a crank position sensor. EDIT: So yes, the distributor spins at half the speed of the crank and it has 24 teeth, not 26.

EDIT3: Finally from the horses mouth. Found in the archives of supraforums:
In teory it is posible to run the 2JZ-GE with the 2JZ-GTE ECU.... The 7M-GTE CPS and the 2JZ-GE Distributer with ingrated CPS have 3 sensors in them. Toyota labels the signals NE,G1,G2... The NE is a 24 teeth Crank position reference. Each tooth represents 30 Deg of crank revolution. On the 2JZ-GTE there is a 12 teeth reluctor wheel on the crank. On the 2JZ-GE there is a 24 teeth reluctor in the distributor. Since the Cam spins at 1/2 speed Crank they are indentical as to the frequency of the signal. The amplitude is not much diferent and it can be varied by adjusting the gap from sensor to reluctor. The reason the amplitude is not much diferent is because the amplitude is a function of resistance in the sensor number of windings speed and air gap. The ratio of windings to resitance is probably close because judgind by the size of the 2JZ-GTE cam sensors they are high resistance high winding where the 7m/2J-GE is low resistance low windings. There is more to that but regardless... =) I had the 1100 AEM computer that is more sensitive than the 2JZ-GTE computer run off my 7M-GTE CPS. The opposite would/should be true.
The G1,G2 sensors are reference signals as to the position of cylinder #1... It tells the ECU if the #1 is on TDC Compressio or TDC Exhaust. The sensors aggain have simular waive forms and frequencies. THe only problem is the Amplitude. =) It is adjustable.

So who wants to try?

[Dramon]

I said that all a long time ago dude.

http://forum.clubna-t.com/showthread.php?t=2952

[Bean]

My bad on missing the party. :)

Let's get a parts lists together in a new post as a proposal?

Sorry I missed the party Dramon, I bet you're pretty mad

[t66sc3]

Any progres on running the GTE ecu on our cars, preferably a revised list or somthing stating the parts needed to collaborate?

[GraffixWB]

HEy all . I'm using MS2 extra on my 2jzge-t . I'm having a bitch of a time getting a crank signal though. I'm attempting to use the stock dizzty, but I'm htinking I'm going to have to convert over to a crank driven wheel. Otherwise it was a pretty easy setup as ECU's go. all the support is there in the manual and on the forums. I ended up modding the board and adding better ignition drivers and plan on adding a bunch of other controls. I have a link to a BMW site where the guy has all the setting for a striaght six with a whole bunch of really nice wiring diagrams and circuit diagrams for al the added nice stuff (electronic boost control)(dual map settings) . I'll havea new dizzy this weekend to test it one last time. othewise I'm going to a crank drive wheen that should create a more usabe signal for MS2.

the vr sensor is the weak point on the MS ecus in my eyes. lots of people struggle with it, but once its running, LOOK OUT. I'm running the 1.2mm head gasket on a stock motor w/ a gt4094r in a s13 240sx, so I'm looking forward to a nice ammount of power.

[Bean]

HEy all . I'm using MS2 extra on my 2jzge-t . I'm having a bitch of a time getting a crank signal though. I'm attempting to use the stock dizzty, but I'm htinking I'm going to have to convert over to a crank driven wheel. Otherwise it was a pretty easy setup as ECU's go. all the support is there in the manual and on the forums. I ended up modding the board and adding better ignition drivers and plan on adding a bunch of other controls. I have a link to a BMW site where the guy has all the setting for a striaght six with a whole bunch of really nice wiring diagrams and circuit diagrams for al the added nice stuff (electronic boost control)(dual map settings) . I'll havea new dizzy this weekend to test it one last time. othewise I'm going to a crank drive wheen that should create a more usabe signal for MS2.

the vr sensor is the weak point on the MS ecus in my eyes. lots of people struggle with it, but once its running, LOOK OUT. I'm running the 1.2mm head gasket on a stock motor w/ a gt4094r in a s13 240sx, so I'm looking forward to a nice ammount of power.

Are you running the MS2-Extra code? You following the Nippondenso CAS modifications using a 2nd VR conditioning circuit?

[Bean]

As an update to 2jz-ge megasquirt installs... I'm going to attempt one soon. I finished building the unit yesterday and am awaiting on a DB37 interface cable ($3.81 on ebay vs $50 at local electronics store)

The goal is to make a pnp unit that uses stock sensors and triggering (minus the map sensor and iat install of course - but those do utilize stock wiring)

[GraffixWB]

just got mine running. Running MS2 extra2.0.1 code. used the stock dizzy and ground off 2 opposing teeth to fake a 12-1 crank wheel. 1000cc injectors. gt4094r. custom intake mani. I fought with megasquirt many many times, but I came out on top FINALLY. THere is a large learning curve with MS, but once you've learned, nothing seems out of reach. I'll be adding boost, nitrous, and meth control all to megsquirt along with oil pressure warning here in the close future. MS can do just about anything you want it to. It is weak in a few spots (2 injector drivers) but is amazing when you look at how versatile it is.
the engine speed was the hardest to get to work properly. lots of reading and experimenting finally gave me the upper hand and I got her started and everything last night. I'll be tuning it today to 11psi. I just have to get my friends cars finished so I can move the toy out in the sun.

[Bean]

just got mine running. Running MS2 extra2.0.1 code. used the stock dizzy and ground off 2 opposing teeth to fake a 12-1 crank wheel. 1000cc injectors. gt4094r. custom intake mani. I fought with megasquirt many many times, but I came out on top FINALLY. THere is a large learning curve with MS, but once you've learned, nothing seems out of reach. I'll be adding boost, nitrous, and meth control all to megsquirt along with oil pressure warning here in the close future. MS can do just about anything you want it to. It is weak in a few spots (2 injector drivers) but is amazing when you look at how versatile it is.
the engine speed was the hardest to get to work properly. lots of reading and experimenting finally gave me the upper hand and I got her started and everything last night. I'll be tuning it today to 11psi. I just have to get my friends cars finished so I can move the toy out in the sun.

Sweet!!! Care to post up your MSQ file? Its going to be a PITA to get mine started, i'm curious what cranking settings you used. I'm building a 2nd VR conditioner for the cam-sensor wheel in the distributor.

Trouble with MS is that it has severely limited IO pins. All those special options work if you don't use an IAC stepper motor (we do), don't want wasted spark ignition (i wont use it yet, but will want it soon enough) and dont have something else you have to drive (like the tach).

[GraffixWB]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/GraffixWB/IMG_1692_edited.jpg
here is an old pic of the bay.

i'll post the msq later. your settings qwill be very easy to take care of. As for the IAC, i used a q45 Throttle body, which has a idle screw :) it works just fine since I don't have A/C or anything dragging on the motor and the idle stays pretty stable.

[LexusFTW]

Thanks Graffix for sharing your information! :thumbup: Looks like a great setup and a good alternative to other EMS's.

[Bean]

Is that an EDIS setup? How are you controlling the stock coils? Running in waste-spark mode?

[GraffixWB]

Is that an EDIS setup? How are you controlling the stock coils? Running in waste-spark mode?


I changed all my drivers over to BIP373s (3x). just follow MS manual on how to install the extra srivers and setup the firmware for it. ITs really pretty simple. just got out and did some tuning today. i need to dial in the ecu a bit more, but other than that its really fun :)

I'm gonna wait til I get my tune down to post my MSQ file. if you need it sooner, just send me a PM and I;ll get it to you. the car is a monster. I haven't even gotten to tune the fueling for boost, but its really fast even without boost.

[roadracer4life]

keep it up man i cant wait to see that thing run.. I am also going to be running megasquirt on my 2jz-ge+t project and i can assure anyone on here it will run fine.. I have had alot of experiance with it over the years and plan on making upward of 800hp..

only time and money will tell..

Sam

[Bean]

I dont think its so much of a question of running as a question of running how well. Sure, WOT is fine, but thats not hard. Its drivability that is a problem. I know it can be done with MS, but I'm just pointing out that people who own these cars are generally MUCH more pickier about how their car drives versus the other communities. Also, unlike most of the other communities; many people use these cars as actual daily drivers; so hacking up the stock electronics or other hardware isn't very attractive at all.

[roadracer4life]

I agree that its easy to tune for WOT and tuning MS or AEM or MOTEC is very difficult for driveability as compared to a stock vehicle.. But i will say that i think that MS is a very capiable and can compete with other much more expensive engine management solutions for a third the cost..

[velella]

any update on this? I am planning on going MS on my next project and would love to know how this is working for you?

[Bean]

Schools out so I got time to work on it finally. I'm moving the electronics and other projects into my new house tomorrow afternoon. Way more space and no apartment bullshit anymore :)

[roadracer4life]

well i am still running into imput trigger issues with eather noise or something like that... i am trying a new crank trigger setup using a gt101 hall pickup and a 12-1 crank attached trigger wheel but i havent had much time to work on it..
I will try to keep ever one posted ..

Sam

[velella]

def do man, and if you get it all running perfect you should post exactly what u have it doing, what extra stuff you bought besides the SM to make it work, and also upload your tune for a base for others to tune off of!

[ocerrahyan]

im also very interested!!!

:)