View Full Version : 98 NA-T Supra VVT-I Experts Please Help!!
I have read these forums and there are many write ups on the process of going NA-T in a Supra. However, there are no write ups on going NA-T with the 98's with the VVT-I engine. Can someone please give me a step by step process with EVERYTHING I need to do to go from stock to turbo with about 330 rwhp? Please keep in mind the ECU is different on the VVT-I and problably needs a standalone. Please don't leave out ANYTHING because I don't want to mess up my engine.
(specific parts that you recommend would also be great)
Your help would be gratly appreciated.
Bromy
10-30-2005, 08:19 AM
Map ECU piggyback, or as you say standalone but the map ecu will work with the stock ecu
Okay but does anyone want to do what I asked. Please.
TSopranoIS300
10-31-2005, 01:55 PM
look here: www.boostlogic.com
the motor of a 98 VVT-I Supra is identical to a 98+ SC300 and 2001+ IS300
Has any one turbo charged their 98 NA on these forums. If you have can you please tell me what you have done. What kit. What ECU upgrades?
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-02-2005, 06:21 PM
the map-ecu doesnt have timing control...
AEM is the way to go, but you would have to custom wire it to the harness
y not just get an ECU with 5 harness?
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-06-2005, 06:01 PM
most fuel management stand alones are failures to vvti. my friend tried the greddy emanage and it crapped out in him...but it actually depends how much power do you want to make? if its over 450whp then AEM is the only way to make it work, the emanage will work lower than 450whp.
however i dont know about the emanage "ultimate" thats a new unit i think.
TSopranoIS300
11-06-2005, 07:40 PM
most fuel management stand alones are failures to vvti. my friend tried the greddy emanage and it crapped out in him...but it actually depends how much power do you want to make? if its over 450whp then AEM is the only way to make it work, the emanage will work lower than 450whp.
however i dont know about the emanage "ultimate" thats a new unit i think.
not true at all....quite untrue....
anything will work....if its done properly, professionally, and tuned correctly...
VVT-I isnt such a bad thing at all....
its just the need to wire things up, as its nothing is "plug and play" as would a Supra TT Ecu harness
Can I just use a piggyback? I'm only goin for 330 hp
TSopranoIS300
11-06-2005, 08:45 PM
Can I just use a piggyback? I'm only goin for 330 hp
of course...an E-manage is ideal for that
there are at least 5-8 IS300's running close to and over 400 hp on an E-manage as well..
its all up to you're budget....despite HP goals.....all depends what you want to do
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-06-2005, 11:42 PM
if you want HIGH HP emanage is crap..AEM will sustain high HP. my friend started with an emanage and then when he wanted higher HP the unit crapped out on him, ill ask him who did the tuning (since i forgot).
keep in mind that my info is based on what happened to my friend, its ok if you disagree.
i also heard that AEM is the only unit that has timing control. i asked if a MAP ECU would work but a few people said it doesnt have it.
if you want high HP go for the best...thats my personal opinion, but since you want 330 hp then im real sure the emanage will do perfect.
TSop, does your engine have a TT bottom end or stock?
TSopranoIS300
11-07-2005, 12:13 AM
if you want HIGH HP emanage is crap..AEM will sustain high HP. my friend started with an emanage and then when he wanted higher HP the unit crapped out on him, ill ask him who did the tuning (since i forgot).
keep in mind that my info is based on what happened to my friend, its ok if you disagree.
i also heard that AEM is the only unit that has timing control. i asked if a MAP ECU would work but a few people said it doesnt have it.
if you want high HP go for the best...thats my personal opinion, but since you want 330 hp then im real sure the emanage will do perfect.
TSop, does your engine have a TT bottom end or stock?
check this: http://www.clubna-t.com/forums/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=259
I've had experiance with E-manage, Haltech, and Motec on an NA-T set up...so I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about....
there are turbo IS300's running low 400 HP on E-manage and its fine....along with full ignition upgrade ( AEM/MSD/HKS DLI)
then there are those with AEM on Supra TT's....but NOT on NA-T applications! :fingersx:
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-07-2005, 01:46 AM
Larry at SP tuned a vvti sc300 NA-T with AEM :)
Had you seen or tuned a vvti na-t going over 650RWHP with emanage or anyone of above?
i am not familiar with haltech and motec.
i def agree that emanage will work for low HP. Spot just go with emanage and take it easy :D
hey you were in that thread over at SF
"I wouldnt give up that easily..
the AEM has way more advantages over an e-manage...." - You
:wavey:
TSopranoIS300
11-07-2005, 10:32 AM
^^ you need to stop responding in here because you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about....
AEM isnt the best.....its a good alternative.....but its NOT the only option....
Yes, I already said that 400 hp and under, E-manage is FINE.....anything more, then a better Engine management system would be reccomended....
if you are not familiar with "haltech or motec" then I respectfully ask you to STOP RESPONDING to this thread and poluting it with misinformation.....you are not helping, but thanks anyway :ugh2:
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-07-2005, 12:04 PM
^^ you need to stop responding in here because you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about....
AEM isnt the best.....its a good alternative.....but its NOT the only option....
Yes, I already said that 400 hp and under, E-manage is FINE.....anything more, then a better Engine management system would be reccomended....
if you are not familiar with "haltech or motec" then I respectfully ask you to STOP RESPONDING to this thread and poluting it with misinformation.....you are not helping, but thanks anyway :ugh2:
i'll ask again.....have you seen or tuned a vvti motor going at HIGH HP with haltech, motec, or emanage ultimate? if so, then who? help me out here. By the way how much does haltech and motec go for? do they go for the same as AEM? in the $1,000s?
we have CLEARLY told spot that emanage is the way to go since he's looking for low HP, i dont see the problem here. what misinformation are you even talking about?
....anything more, then a better Engine management system would be reccomended.... THATS WHAT I SAID =\ ..... the fact of the matter is that i put AEM overall the best and thats the problem here, and to my knowledge it has been proven to work flawless, SP left that sc300 running perfect.
dude Spot arent you posting for ChamPazn? he already has the AEM.
or do you also have a 98 na going na-t? :dunno:
TSopranoIS300
11-07-2005, 04:01 PM
i'll ask again.....have you seen or tuned a vvti motor going at HIGH HP with haltech, motec, or emanage ultimate? if so, then who? help me out here. By the way how much does haltech and motec go for? do they go for the same as AEM? in the $1,000s?
Yes, I've had experiance with all 3....personally....Haltech costs around $1300...Motec $3000+
THATS WHAT I SAID =\ ..... the fact of the matter is that i put AEM overall the best and thats the problem here, and to my knowledge it has been proven to work flawless, SP left that sc300 running perfect.
dude Spot arent you posting for ChamPazn? he already has the AEM.
or do you also have a 98 na going na-t? :dunno:
AEM is a good buy for what it can do......IF you find someone knowledgable to custom wire it....like a Sound Performance, Toyomoto, etc.....
however, there is NO plug and play for an NA-T application, and custom wiring is neccesary.....as is for Haltech, Motec, etc.....in a sense, they are all "piggy backing" the stock ecu....
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-07-2005, 05:54 PM
custom wiring isnt that much of a problem, one would just have to find someone knowledgable with the work, and save a few bucks. i see you have motec thats cool.. but not everyone can afford such an expensive stand alone.
haltechs price is fair though...do you know anyone on the boards that uses it? pushing at least 500whp
TSopranoIS300
11-07-2005, 06:27 PM
custom wiring isnt that much of a problem, one would just have to find someone knowledgable with the work, and save a few bucks. i see you have motec thats cool.. but not everyone can afford such an expensive stand alone.
haltechs price is fair though...do you know anyone on the boards that uses it? pushing at least 500whp
very true....
yes, LexIS307 http://www.clubna-t.com/forums/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=255
and most, if not ALL Toyomoto customers...as well as SRT www.swiftracing.com
very similar set up to my original with the Haltech E6X....E8 is a newer model Haltech
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-07-2005, 07:23 PM
Thats awesome. so is the E8 more or slightly more pricey?
no offense but why are most turbo lexus' 400-500whp? i havent seen one above 500whp.
Toyomoto is in my area, woot :)
TSopranoIS300
11-07-2005, 07:28 PM
Thats awesome. so is the E8 more or slightly more pricey?
no offense but why are most turbo lexus' 400-500whp? i havent seen one above 500whp.
Toyomoto is in my area, woot :)
why? because thats an ideal power band....
its not practical to do more then that?
there are many IS300's, SC300's, and a few GS models over 500 HP....
search around IS300.net and ClubLexus :thumbup:
USMCSupra
11-07-2005, 08:01 PM
check this: http://www.clubna-t.com/forums/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=259
I've had experiance with E-manage, Haltech, and Motec on an NA-T set up...so I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about....
there are turbo IS300's running low 400 HP on E-manage and its fine....along with full ignition upgrade ( AEM/MSD/HKS DLI)
then there are those with AEM on Supra TT's....but NOT on NA-T applications! :fingersx:
That is pretty funny. As you are into the Lexus scene I'm sure you're quite familiar with Lex Luthor and his SC300 project. He was a huge proponent of Greddy's E-Manage setup. If you read his project page on ClubLexus, you can find many pages of arguments over why E-Manage is so great. One blown brand new GTE shortblock and garage later with the E-Manage, he took his project over to Larry @ SP. With another new GTE shortblock Larry proceded to tune his setup with the E-Manage. I think the E-Manage couldn't keep up after around mid-400 rwhp. They tossed it and put in the AEM. I think he later sold the car to Ethan Banks.
I've seen many of the Lexus guys with the E-Manage setup wire it in, strap it on a dyno, and post up the results and call the car fully tuned only to blow their motors a few months down the line. Of course... in this world we're in... people don't broadcast their failures around and many of the times the only thing you see is their dyno sheet.... giving yourself the hope that it may work out for you.
I'm sure there are guys running around on low 400's with the piggybacks a hop, skip, and jump away from a blown motor and just don't know it yet. Let's face it the setups that last are properly tuned standalones with a GTE shortblock in there... the same kind of setup on your car, by no coincidence I'm sure.
-Joe
98 VVT-i NA -> 98 NA-T -> 98 2JZ-GTE/V160
BTW, if you don't mind me asking, did you go straight to the GTE shortblock or had some trouble along the way? Most people don't go through a block and 3 fuel management setups for sh*ts and giggles.
TSopranoIS300
11-07-2005, 08:15 PM
^^ interesting and truthfull points...
When I went F/I, I had my motor built with a GTE shortblock.....never had any issues, except a faulty Haltech from the factory...had it replaced under warranty, but while I waited 3 months for that to happen, I spent the $$$ and went with a Motec M600 set up..
I had the e-manage with a vortech Supercharger on the IS300 I purchased back in June....made roughly 300 rwhp
quicksilver im not posting for champazn he just has the same car as me and he is trying the AEM EMS but his power goals are much higher than mine.
But guys honestly you know way more than me. I just want around 330 horsepower SAFELY on my 98 NA. Key word safely because i can't blow my engine. If u guys could just help me with the process of NA-T. I think I'm just going to get a piggyback.
I want to get the dave-h upgraded turbo kit on naperformance.com. It comes with:
Turbocharger of your choice (TE44, PT52, PT61). Contact us if you want to run a different turbo.
Cast-Steel Manifold
Tial 38mm wastegate w/dumppipe
3" Shorty Downpipe
3" Midpipe
Oil feed and Return Lines
PTE Intercooler 31x10.5x3.5 capable of 750hp
APEX-I S-AFC II
525cc Injectors(x6)
Walboro 255lph fuel pump
SP 3mm Headgasket
GReddy or HKS Blow off Valve
K&N FIPK
Boostlogic Intercooler Piping
Will this solve all my problems or do u guys see some flaws in this? Do I still need the e-manage piggyback or will the APEX-I S-AFC II do the trick. Also I heard that these piggybacks can't handle 525cc Injectors(x6). Is that true or can I just get smaller injectors?
Please tell me anything I'm missing or anything I don't need. Thanks for all your help.
USMCSupra
11-07-2005, 08:53 PM
APEX-I S-AFC II
S-AFC II = blown motor. You need at least the ignition and injector control that Greddy's E-Manage offers. On top of that you will need an "ecu conditioner" like the one Turbo East offers. I think Split Sec and a couple of other companies also offer options that eliminates OBDII ecu relearning as well. Keep in mind that once you get all this working, you'll still get horrible gas mileage by forcing the ecu into continuous open loop. Hope this helps.
-Joe
edit: Also, if your true goal is only low 300rwhp, you can get away with 440cc injectors no problem.
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-07-2005, 09:45 PM
quicksilver im not posting for champazn he just has the same car as me and he is trying the AEM EMS but his power goals are much higher than mine.
But guys honestly you know way more than me. I just want around 330 horsepower SAFELY on my 98 NA. Key word safely because i can't blow my engine. If u guys could just help me with the process of NA-T. I think I'm just going to get a piggyback.
I want to get the dave-h upgraded turbo kit on naperformance.com. It comes with:
Turbocharger of your choice (TE44, PT52, PT61). Contact us if you want to run a different turbo.
Cast-Steel Manifold
Tial 38mm wastegate w/dumppipe
3" Shorty Downpipe
3" Midpipe
Oil feed and Return Lines
PTE Intercooler 31x10.5x3.5 capable of 750hp
APEX-I S-AFC II
525cc Injectors(x6)
Walboro 255lph fuel pump
SP 3mm Headgasket
GReddy or HKS Blow off Valve
K&N FIPK
Boostlogic Intercooler Piping
Will this solve all my problems or do u guys see some flaws in this? Do I still need the e-manage piggyback or will the APEX-I S-AFC II do the trick. Also I heard that these piggybacks can't handle 525cc Injectors(x6). Is that true or can I just get smaller injectors?
Please tell me anything I'm missing or anything I don't need. Thanks for all your help.
You own a Supra right? Ever seen people calling themselves boost addicts? You say you want 330hp and then later on you'd want to push the boost a little then ka-boom! :rant: If possible try to get the best there is from the start, it will save you tons of headaches and dyno $. I personally would choose between AEM and Haltech from this point. But of course I lend more to AEM at the moment. I will find out what interesting results Haltech has given some Lexus people on the forums.
so USMCSupra what exactly do I need electronically? should i keep the apex-I S-AFC II AND get a e-manage AND get an "ecu conditioner"?
(using 440cc injectors)
USMCSupra
11-07-2005, 10:54 PM
so USMCSupra what exactly do I need electronically? should i keep the apex-I S-AFC II AND get a e-manage AND get an "ecu conditioner"?
(using 440cc injectors)
You don't need the S-AFC II if you get the E-Manage. Again... I would recommend going standalone but I don't know if that is within your budget. Honestly, low 300rwhp isn't much power... you'll still get your ass handed to you by most domestics with a few bolt-ons. WRX's, Evo's, 350's are no joke either. I was pretty dissappointed at ~300rwhp. Keep in mind you're sacrificing a lot by modifying your car. It will never feel like stock again. You will always have to worry about if something is going to break. "What was that sound?" syndrome sets in. Things can become quite problematic. I would set my goals higher and do it right the first time... otherwise the juice is not worth the squeeze, IMHO.
-Joe
the problem is that the there are no standalones that fit the 98 NA because it has 5 harness plugs instead of 3. And if I go over 350 hp I will blow my transmission.
USMCSupra
11-07-2005, 11:07 PM
the problem is that the there are no standalones that fit the 98 NA because it has 5 harness plugs instead of 3. And if I go over 350 hp I will blow my transmission.
Of course it will have to be hardwired. Honestly, if you're worrying about harness plugs, you're not ready to take on turbo charging your 98 Na Supra. Built auto or 6 speed swap is the way to go when it comes to your transmission. Why spend 5 grand minimum on a setup only good for killing civics (even then you need to be carefu about which civic you race)? You have to pay to play. You can pay now or pay later. (I payed later, fyi)
-Joe
wat about an is300 kit? Don't the 98 supra NA and is300 have exactly the same engines or do they differ?
USMCSupra
11-07-2005, 11:26 PM
wat about an is300 kit? Don't the 98 supra NA and is300 have exactly the same engines or do they differ?
I think you are confusing yourself. Engine management is engine management. It doesn't matter what turbo setup you run, you still need some sort of engine management to run it. I suggest you read the faqs to familiarize yourself with the basics.
-Joe
you think im stupid but i know what im talking about. I've been researching for many months because i don't want to mess up my engine. WIll you look at this website http://www.turboeast.com/ and go to IS300 Sport Turbo S2 Kit and tell me what you think? Please tell me if I get this kit what else would I need to do or will it be running fine.
I really do appreciate all your help
USMCSupra
11-08-2005, 12:52 AM
you think im stupid but i know what im talking about. I've been researching for many months because i don't want to mess up my engine. WIll you look at this website http://www.turboeast.com/ and go to IS300 Sport Turbo S2 Kit and tell me what you think? Please tell me if I get this kit what else would I need to do or will it be running fine.
I really do appreciate all your help
First of all, I don't think you're stupid. Secondly, judging by your questions, I think you may not have a grasp of what each component does and the limitations behind them. Things are more complicated than purchasing the right 'kit'. That's why I suggested reading the faq's here and especially on supraforum's na section. It is for your benefit and not to put you down, so I hope you don't take it that way.
I think TurboEast's products are priced a little bit on the high side. I have not seen their products first hand, so I don't know if the quality is worth the price. If you are on a tight budget, I would look elsewhere.
Again... it does not matter which turbo kit you put together... engine management requirements do not change(it does on the higher end, but I'm speaking practically in your case.) From the link you gave me the S2 kit includes the fuel conditioner but no piggyback/standalone. You're still going to have to purchase an E-Manage on the side just like you would if you purchased your kit from someone else or pieced it together yourself.
Also, find a reputable shop to install and especially tune it. You can spend all the money in a world and still blow your motor tuning the darned thing. Again, I would still go with a standalone.
-Joe
edit: Also, pick up a wideband! You'll need gauges for AFR, EGT's, and boost. Don't drive around without knowing what is going on with your car.
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-08-2005, 01:35 AM
Spot listen to Joe. He went through the beating, and suffered a lot. And on the bright side he enlightens what one should do regarding NA-T.
leoPTE61
11-08-2005, 10:46 PM
Here's my 2 cents...
I just recently turbo'd my IS300 with the BoostLogic kit. I did practically all the work myself with the exception of soldering the wires of the TEC3 to the stock ECU. Do it right the first time...lowering the compression with a thicker head gasket, get larger injectors, and run a standalone. The TurboEast eManage + fuel conditioner work but from my understanding of the fuel conditioner, it's just a black box that turns the power off to the stock ECU to reset the fuel trims. This question was brought up on is300.net before about what happens if you drive your car for a few hundred miles without turning the car off...will the stock ECU learn the fuel trims and lean out the air/fuel mixture? The question was never answered. Personally I wouldn't want to find out the hard way at the cost of an engine.
Also keep in my mind, each standalone has its plus and minuses. The most popular standalones that are run on the IS300s are the Haltech E6X and Electromotive TEC3. The Haltech is feature rich and very reasonably priced but you're going to have to buy an ignition amplifier since the stock ignitor isn't up to the task...the MSD DIS-4 and AEM C2DI are the popular choice. Also there isn't much community support on the Haltech. There are very few members that installed it and tuned it themselves. The TEC3 doesn't have a lof of features like the Haltech but it's very easy to install and doesn't require an ignition amplifer. Plenty of community support on the TEC3 since there are a lot of PFS kits that were shipped. Another option you can look at is the Haltech F10X which is just a standalone fuel management system. You can control the fuel but let the stock ECU control timing. The topic of what to do with VVTi might be up in the air. I just left it alone and let the stock ECU control it.
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-08-2005, 11:40 PM
You didn't swap the bottom end to GTE? even if you have lower compression our bottom end has weaker rods and pistons.
leoPTE61
11-08-2005, 11:49 PM
You didn't swap the bottom end to GTE? even if you have lower compression our bottom end has weaker rods and pistons.
No I didn't swap out the bottom end. The VVTi rods and pistons should be able to handle 12 lbs of boost safely when tuned properly.
Wow thanks Leo great post. So you got the boostlogic NA-T kit and went with the TEC3 standalone? Sounds good to me. I'd love to see a list of all your mods. (Also did you have to custom wire your standalone?)
leoPTE61
11-09-2005, 12:02 AM
Wow thanks Leo great post. So you got the boostlogic NA-T kit and went with the TEC3 standalone? Sounds good to me. I'd love to see a list of all your mods. (Also did you have to custom wire your standalone?)
My list of mods are basically whatever you see on the BoostLogic site with the TEC3, EFI Uego 1000 wideband, and Blitz SBC-id. I'm planning to upgrade my clutch later on. There wasn't any custom wiring done on the TEC3. The TEC3 I have is a special version designed for PFS to use on their IS300 kits. It uses practically all the stock sensors (IAT, CLT, knock, O2, TPS) with the exception of a MAP and crank trigger wheel so all I had to was find the TEC3 wire and corresponding ECU wire, cut, solder, and heat shrink. Overall the TEC3 isn't too difficult of an EMS to tune. You might want to check is300.net for a used TEC3 (PFS version) since it's a pretty straight forward install. It's not the best EMS out there but it's a great EMS to use for a beginner tuner like myself and will get the job done controlling your engine.
Nice I think I'm problably going to do the same thing you did since it works for you. I'm assuming you got the IS300 turbo kit. I have a 98 supra NA and since they have the same engine I'm going to get the kit designed for the IS300. My question is are the ECU's the same. Will the TEC3 work on my 98 supra. (It has 5 harness plugs).
How long have you been turbo and have you had any problems?
O yeah is your car automatic. Mine is automatic and I'm not sure the tranny can hold all the power.
leoPTE61
11-09-2005, 12:38 AM
I haven't been turbo'd long enough. I finished my street tuning for 6 lbs yesterday night. My car is running pretty good with a nice 11:1 AFR under boost. Under vacuum it fluctuates between 11-14:1. Still need to work on that but it's a bit hard to tune between 2000-6500 RPM in 4th gear on the highway without being pulled over. I'm planning to do the rest of the tuning during the week of Thanksgiving since I'll have access to a dyno. It's been about a week since I put on my kit so I can't really give you a long term update. The only things I can say are the BL prototype IS has been driving around since the spring and there are plenty of IS300s with the TEC3. The only problems I ran into so far are an oil leak caused by the oil return (used RTV red silicone and a new gasket to fix that), a fuel leak caused by a bad o-ring, and an exhaust leak from the wastegate (I'll investigate that leak during the weekend). But I'm really paranoid, I put a piece of card board under my car everyday to check for leaks. Before I start the car up I open the hood to check for signs of a fuel leak and check the oil level and condition of it.
My ECU has 5 connectors, I couldn't see why you wouldn't be able to use the TEC3 or any standalone. The pin layout may be different but all you need to do is find the correct wire and cut/splce it. I'm not sure how similar your ECU is to the IS since the 2001 and 2002+ have different pin layouts. My only advice is go with a standalone that's working on multiple VVTi cars and has a lot of community support, it will make life much easier when problems occur.
I have a 5 speed but from what it looks like your automatic tranny can handle the power but it's going to need a valve body upgrade and possibly a stronger sprag. Since you're auto, you might want to look into the TEC3 and PFS black box. It's pretty well know in the IS30 world that the PFS TEC3 setup works wonders on the automatics.
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-09-2005, 01:09 AM
No I didn't swap out the bottom end. The VVTi rods and pistons should be able to handle 12 lbs of boost safely when tuned properly.
Personally I wouldn't risk it
leoPTE61
11-09-2005, 09:43 AM
Personally I wouldn't risk it
I wouldn't run that amount of boost on the street either for fear of engine damage. If I was to ever turn it to 12 PSI, it would be for a dyno run. The most I'd ever run on the street is 10 PSI, right now my SBC is setup to run 8, 10, 12, and 14 PSI but I'm still driving off the wastegate spring (about 6 PSI). After spending all that time and money to install my turbo, I don't want to go through the trouble of pulling my engine and replace the short block or internals but thanks for the concern.
champazn
11-09-2005, 10:24 AM
Well i honestly wouldn't boost over 9psi on stock auto trans anyways. Heat is what kills the trans so get yourself and tranny cooler, it will help save your trans as well.
TSopranoIS300
11-09-2005, 10:53 AM
should NOT be boosting that high on a stock compression motor...
add a headgasket, lower compression, and you are much safer on the GE vvti motor......and can safely boost up to 10-12 psi without threat to damaging the stock internals
USMCSupra
11-09-2005, 01:33 PM
It's his motor, guys, let him do what he wants with it. You can only say so much. :dunno:
New shortblock goes in or he disappears for a couple of months, you'll know what happened. :fingersx:
leoPTE61
11-09-2005, 03:19 PM
It's his motor, guys, let him do what he wants with it. You can only say so much. :dunno:
New shortblock goes in or he disappears for a couple of months, you'll know what happened. :fingersx:
Actually I'm really driving on the conservative side. There are IS300 guys running around 14-15 lbs of boost on their stock internals with just a headgasket and there are more driving around 8 lbs of boost with a 10.5:1 compression. I'm running a conservative 11:1 AFR under boost, timing is set to what PFS had on their base maps, according to WinTEC there wasn't a sign of knock, I haven't even hit 6 lbs of boost yet on my motor. I even have my SBC beep when I hit 3 lbs of boost. Then I'm running on my stock clutch. I rather have a clutch that slips and that doesn't transfer the power harshly than one that holds and is very harsh on the transmission.
You're right, it's my motor if I want to drive on 6 lbs of boost on lowered compression then I'll do it. But I hope you're not crossing your fingers and praying that I blow my engine. Also pulling the motor isn't something I feel I'm capable of doing. I don't have an engine hoist or stand. There aren't many reputable shops in the Mass area I feel completely comfortable with when performing a task like that.
USMCSupra
11-09-2005, 03:57 PM
You're right, it's my motor if I want to drive on 6 lbs of boost on lowered compression then I'll do it. But I hope you're not crossing your fingers and praying that I blow my engine. Also pulling the motor isn't something I feel I'm capable of doing. I don't have an engine hoist or stand. There aren't many reputable shops in the Mass area I feel completely comfortable with when performing a task like that.
Of course not, I was crossing fingers hoping nothing happens with you running higher boost. Pulling the motor is not hard as long as you remember where everything goes. Just it's an interference motor.
All right seriously guys what would you do if you were in my shoes and you CAN'T sell my 98 NA for a TT. I'm on a mission and I am going to turbo this stupid vvt-i supra. What are ALL the things you would buy (including brand names) to from stock to a 350-400 hp car. Remember that safety is my main priority (dont wanna blow my engine). Just pretend you had my problem for a second. I just want to know what you guys would do and what parts (kits/electronics..) you guys would buy if you had my car.
Thanks guys
(please don't say ANY turbo kit intended for my car. SPECIFICS PLEASE)
leoPTE61
11-09-2005, 08:44 PM
All right seriously guys what would you do if you were in my shoes and you CAN'T sell my 98 NA for a TT. I'm on a mission and I am going to turbo this stupid vvt-i supra. What are ALL the things you would buy (including brand names) to from stock to a 350-400 hp car. Remember that safety is my main priority (dont wanna blow my engine). Just pretend you had my problem for a second. I just want to know what you guys would do and what parts (kits/electronics..) you guys would buy if you had my car.
Thanks guys
(please don't say ANY turbo kit intended for my car. SPECIFICS PLEASE)
Here's what I'd do...
1. BL stage 2 kit in my opinion it's the most reasonably priced that has all the necessary hardware minus the electronics
- turbo, manifold, downpipe, mid-pipe, wastegate, oil & return lines, intercooler + piping, fuel pump, ARP head studs, 2.5 mm headgasket, larger injectors, and injector clips
2. BL turbo blanket
3. Exhaust thermal wrap for the downpipe
4. Silicone vacuum line (www.hosetechniques.com)
5. Electronic boost controller that has a display so you can use that as a boost gauge as well
6. Good wideband that has logging capabilities
7. Transmission upgrade (valve body upgrade for the autos and a better clutch for the manuals)
8. Last but not least...a good standalone EMS...it's a toss up on what to use since they all have their pros and cons
Here are a few things I think are good to have but you can get away with not having...
1. EGT gauge
2. Fuel pressure gauge
3. Return fuel system
thanks man. any other opinions?
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-09-2005, 08:56 PM
All of above and a TT shortblock since you don't want to blow your engine (Don't risk it if you mean it). As for an EMS I would say AEM, but since you want low HP then just go with a e-manage/ultimate.
where would i get a tt shortblock and how much would it cost?
TSopranoIS300
11-09-2005, 09:19 PM
where would i get a tt shortblock and how much would it cost?
www.toyotaworld.com
call up Parts Dept, ask for JEFF WATSON
you will need:
GTE Shortblock
GTE Oil Pump
GTE Headgasket
USMCSupra
11-09-2005, 11:38 PM
Do yourself a 6spd/2JZ-GTE swap like me and call it a day... esp if your 98 is low miles. 98 TT/6spd Supra is not bad to have around.
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-10-2005, 12:00 AM
Man if you find a hook up let me know :) I would definitely do that better.
To me, finding a USDM GTE/6 speed would be a dream, no headaches no nothing. Just thinking about it makes me feel good.
Then I can sell my 16,xxx mileage VVT-i motor for a lot or something :o:
Yeah even my other friend who was 98 NA-T almost the same time as you were went for the GTE/6 speed swap, all finished too. He's Surpass on SF.
yeah but that would cost a lot more and a headache to find and put in
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-12-2005, 11:33 PM
a lot more? i dont think so...roughly cheaper. i found a jdm TT + 6 speed for like $6,5xx but who knows? maybe some other guy or company decides to sell it cheaper, its all luck.
the trick is just getting the JDM then convert it to USDM (turbos, injectors, cams, harness, and ECU. stock parts that wouldnt cost THAT much money) tuning wont be hard :D just grab a s-afcII, easy as that. then add a DP, intake, FMIC (as my personal preference) BCC, boost controller then hooray for 380+rwhp
since the getrag is in there boosting higher wouldnt be a problem, plus stick is fun :bigok:, and not to mention no gay "cross over" intake manifold going over the head. luckily labor for me wouldnt be much of a problem.
the only advantages (a few being painful advantages) of going 98 na-t is that you'll already be single ($4500 stage 1 $5250 stage 2 boost logic kit i personally recommend boost logic, parts look nice and you get great parts not to mention a FMIC. and about $2,000-$3,000 dave h for a very simple turbo kit), then sooner or later you will have to get a built auto ($1800 + sending in your core) or 6 speed if you wish (which go around $3,000 or so from people plus misc parts for the tranny) personally i wouldnt get a W58, waste of money just to fuck it up sooner or later, and as option (highly recommended as well) you would have to get a standalone ($1,500+) which is a lot of money but worth it obviously. oh and VVT-i is an advantage of course hehe. then theres the main problem of finding an person who really knows his shit on how to tune a vvt-i motor WITHOUT any fuck ups. and since you don't want to blow up your motor you'd have to get a TT shortblock + head studs, and a TT headgasket :) if you're rich then theres no problem on anything lol, but if you're on a budget then that alternates a lot of things.
if you really want the minimum of going turbo (turbo kit, stock tranny, piggyback) for only 330HP then good luck on adapting to that much HP because in time you will definitely get bored of that much little power, as Joe mentioned when he went through that little HP... he was disappointed, heh but its all up to you.
USMCSupra
11-13-2005, 12:46 AM
It will cost you well over 10 grand to do a full 2JZ-GTE/V160 swap to full US Spec.
leoPTE61
11-13-2005, 09:12 AM
No need to do a full swap when you're looking for 400 rwhp. You can get a brand spanking new TT shortblock for around $2500. Swap that in if you're paranoid of the bottom end being weak or you can buy GTE internals for about a third of the price of a new shortblock. A GTE bottom end and GE VVTi head will be able to make that power and then some. Then get a built NA tranny from BoostLogic for about $1800...voila...you got a strong engine and a transmission that can handle whatever you throw at it. The only thing I can think of is what to do with the VVTi. If you can control it you might be able to squeeze out more power. My advice is leave it alone and let the stock ECU control it instead of having it disabled.
Quicksilver .-MKIV-.
11-14-2005, 12:12 PM
Swapping the internals is a bitch though and its pricey...I have heard bad reviews on the BL built auto too, that it slips a lot and such. keeping the stock ECU w/ piggyback right?i dunno about that.
And hey I can always get a GTE/Auto to save a few grand :dunno: JDM gte/auto go for like 2-3k
cliffud
05-03-2007, 11:48 AM
so Spot - what happened??
Cubanstyle
05-03-2007, 06:39 PM
shit reading all this makes me think twince about boosting my IS300 ..
im in the same spot as SPOT is lol !! does that make sence .. !
im damn confuse.! Now i dont know if i should sell my turbo kit or just go crazzy spend all week work money and boost this IS300 . Been adicted to BOOST is worse then been and addict to crack .. !
its my only car daily driver low budget .. what would you guys do ? BOOST or BACK AWAY FROM IT ?
KEEP IN MIND I AM BOOST ADICT..
( previous car SRT-4 ) 20 psi
cliffud
05-03-2007, 07:01 PM
cuban- what turbo kit did you get?
I'm in the same boat. 98 GS300 w/ VVTI engine. I've been told the same information from multiple sources. I only want to run 7lbs of boost with the XSPower kit that is on order and the garage shelf is filled with the following:
* SAFCII
* SplitSec ESC1 box
* An LMS CAI (2.5" piping that will be used with 2.5" IC piping from Mark @ xspower
* HKS SSQV Bov
Things on the "to buy" list include:
* Trans cooler
* Function7 oil return flange
* MAYBE a ECU patch harness so I don't have to cut/splice in any wires to the stock ECU wiring. They cost $210 for one that is already wired up for use with an SAFCII.
I hope that is all I will need but I'm sure once the kit comes I will find that I need other items.
Cubanstyle
05-03-2007, 09:50 PM
cliffud
i got the kit from mark .. but yea its crazzy how much money i still need to spend man .
im thinking on just selling the kit and saving as much money as i can and in 1 year giving that $$$$? down to finance a TT Supra 6/speed if possible so i wont have to go through this whole NA TO NA-T thing . i'll decide in a few weeks anyhow im still going to get BOOST i need it right away lol im in need of it !
Cubanstyle
05-03-2007, 09:57 PM
CLIFF
I forgot to mention went i bought my SRT-4 back in 2005 i said i ma keep it stock .. but its impossible man unless you scare of power and speed and dont like the sensation of adrenaline ..
i dont know about you but for a while im going to run my car with 7 psi just like you but later on i will hit 500 whp goal ..u cant skip that !
the kit is great didnt cost me much ..but damn i want to do it right i need a HALTECH E6 and other shit that go with it more $$$ and tranny cooler im AUTO too .. i dont recommend u go with SAFC CLIFF i've talk to people that build IS300 in MIAMI where i live professional shops and SAFC is not a good choice stay away from it i was going to go SAFC also but its not worth blowin the engine just to save a couple of hundreds $$$ get HALTECH or E-Manage but make sure they do e-manage right someone that knows . i personaly will go Haltech to do it right the first time .!
Cubanstyle
05-03-2007, 09:59 PM
>>>>>QUICK SILVER <<<<
Where in MIAMI you located. I live in Miami too im at HIALEAH ..
let me know man so we can meet up sometime if you want ! to share some INFO !
cliffud
05-04-2007, 02:57 AM
cubanstyle - for your eventual HP goals I agree, the Haltech is a good choice from the start. I personally will keep my car at 7lbs and whatever HP it produces to ensure the system is over-engineered for the strain that will be put on the car.
7lbs isn't much at all and Dramon, one of the moderators on this board, clearly says that an SAFCII will suffice. I should be fine. I plan on selling the car in the next year and a half anyway.
In fact, here is what he said:
For his power goals though I would think an safc2 would be more than enough.
SAFC2 seems to work for lower hp setups.
Will it run as efficiently as it can? NO
Will it have more stock drivability than with AEM? YES
For anything under 325-350 is it worth the extra 1500 for an AEM and tuning? NO
Just go SAFC and keep the boost down. The SAFC2 has shown no problems in lower boost/lower hp setups. Going standalone is a HUGE step and I wish that people wouldnt just jump to suggest AEM so often. It is a great alternative and probably the best end solution for our cars, but when youre under 325-350rwhp you can spend your money elsewhere before you go standalone.
Thread: http://www.clubna-t.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2978
Turbo819
11-17-2007, 07:53 AM
Before reading this post I knew what I was going to do. I want also 350rwhp to 400rwhp. The only way in my opinion is to get 2JZGTE (JDM Aristo) SWAP It will cost far far less. I feel. And after reading this POST I know that this is the only way to go. I plan on doing all the work myself.
Quicksilver & USMC is 100% right
THIS IS WHAT I FOUND A WHILE BACK http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233748&highlight=SC300TT%21
1. 2JZGTE (JDM Aristo) w/ Auto Tranny and ECU
2. Supra Turbo Fuel Pump inc. stainer, rubber seat and clip
3. Supra OEM MAF, Intake, Intercooler and Intercooler piping
4. Supra Power Steering Reservior
5. Fuel Pump ECU (98 Supra Non-Turbo)
6. Supra turbo heater hoses (3 pieces+ 1 Generic hose 1/2'' from
Autozone)
7.Modify drive shaft and transmission output flange.
8. Custom Power Steering Lines
9. Supra Turbo Water pump
10. MSD 8920 Tach Adapter
11. Supra Turbo Throttle cable
12. Supra Brake Booster vacuum fitting for Intake manifold.
13. Silicon Vacuum Lines
14. Supra turbo oil return flange, #2 turbo oil return line, return hoses
15. Supra turbo upper and lower radiator hoses and thermostat housing
EXTEND THE WIRE HARNESS & MODIFY A FEW PLUGS
I plan on doing all the work myself to save some I mean alot of funds
1. 2JZGTE VVti (JDM Aristo) $2500-$3000
2. 2-15 ABOVE $1000-$1500
$3500-$4500 PLUS shipping of the 2JZGTE (JDM Aristo)
The other way it seem like you keep buying and buying and these items are high price items. EXAMPLE
1. Turbo kit $ Boost Logic IS300 Turbo Kit $5399 Shipped
2. Stand alone Computer Plug-N-Play Engine Management System
Plug-N-Ply engine management system.
Part #: 30-1070
$1,738.11
Plug-N-Play Engine Management System with Wideband UEGO
Plug-N-Ply engine management system with built in wideband UEGO.
Part #:
$2,105.61
$7137 -$7494 Plus Dyno Fees
MY math might be very bad but I can see a deal when I see one. :fingersx: :fingersx:
You would have a shortblock that can hold 600hp-700hp. More fuel bigger turbo.
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