AEM EMS Timing/Distributor

[mtran]

Excuse the noobness.
I recently replaced the leaking o-ring for my distributor, but I had no idea that adjusting the timing with a standalone is different than regular. I put the distributor back in, adjusted the timing with a timing light to 0 degrees TDC. But when I connected my laptop up a couple days later, the timing is totally different. I searched but I couldn't find anything. How do I correctly tune the engine? I'll be happy to provide any info or upload my config file if anyone wants to help me tune.

[DrNick]

You didn't specify your vehicle but timing is usually 10 degrees BTDC. This is set when the diagnostic port pins are bridged. If you look at the timing without these pins bridged then it will naturally be different as the engine responds to the high vacuum idle condition by giving more spark advance.

[mtran]

Sorry, 95 Supra NA-T, XS Power T61 Turbo Kit, AEM EMS, HKS Twin Power
So I should rotate the distributor to 10 BTDC using a timing light? Does the bridge thing even work since I have a standalone?
What should the timing settings for the AEM be? Like, the crank adv says 24.84, and at idle, the ign advance is between 10 and 20 degrees. I don't know if that's right or not.

Edit: So I think I kinda have it down. But I'm still really confused of how to adjust the timing altogether. My dizzy is all out of wack, I don't know if I should rotate it until it lines up with the timing light at 10 BTDC and then go to the AEM and adjust the ignition timing to 10 BTDC...

[DrNick]

I dont know how the AEM displays the timing, whether its an absolute figure or in relation to your base timing. But generally the base timing is set at the distributor and the one displayed in software is what changes you want to make to that.

Bridging the diagnostic port disables the vacuum advance to allow you to set the base timing accurately. It is possible that whoever installed the AEM also messed around with the vac advance. You better check with the AEM installer.

[mtran]

I see what you're saying. So step by step, how would I go about adjusting the timing?
Bridge the diagnostic port, start the car, rotate the distributor to 10 BTDC, go to the AEM and adjust it to 10 degrees?

[DrNick]

Grab the service manuals off my website, it has the procedures for setting time and so on.

http://www.suprawa.com/technical.htm

[93 twintrbo]

I am at work and do not have my paptop with me so I'm going off memory. You are going to want to start the car. Connect your laptop the the aem> go to configure ( located on top bar almost at the end to the right)> Select ecu set up> configure Ignition> Type 15 degrees in the box> Click the box to set fixed timing> at this time the aem is going to fix timing at 15 degrees. Go out and get your timing light out and set your distributor up to read 15 degrees. Once they both read 15 degrees then select OK. You are done!!

You may want to go back in the timing set up and make sure they are sync'd up still. You dont need to set fixed timing again, just look at what the aem is displaying as your timing. Go ahead and rev the car to 3k rpm and see if it matches up there also. If the timing is the same you are good to go.

Lawrence

[mtran]

Thanks, I did that but the checkbox in the AEM ignition setup said "test timing", so I'm guessing it only tests what you put in the box, because when I clicked OK it reverted back to what it was before.
BTW, I clocked the dizzy to 10 BTDC and the AEM displays the timing as 12-13. I'm guessing that difference is too much?

[93 twintrbo]

What version Aem do you have? As long as the ignition doesnt fluctuate too much, I dont see why you cant set the Dizzy per aem displayed timing. Maybe just set a few cells at idle to display say 10 degrees so it wont fluctuate. Then set your dizzy to read the same. Ive never tried it that way but it may work. Make sure to check timing at high rpm also just to make sure.

[mtran]

I have the 30-1101. I want to set the timing at 10 BTDC, not 12-13. I guess I can try manually changing the timing on the AEM, but I'm kinda apprehensive about it.
How would you go about the timing in high RPM? What if it's different at redline? How would I adjust it to match?

[EviltoM]

Check the AEMPro manual, it explains how to set the timing. You dont have to touch the dizzy at all. You can adjust the "ignition sync" with the software, which is like turning the dizzy to match the timing you see with a timing light.

[trodNA-T93]

its in the configure settings under ignition. set your target rpm to 10 degrees and hit the check box. cant remember what it says but it will attempt to set the car at ten degrees. take your timing light and click advance or retard until your timing light shows 10 degrees. click ok then it will revert to whatever the timing map reads. should be dead on with what the timing value is in the ecu data table.

[mtran]

I tried that but with no avail. I set the timing in the AEM at 10 and I clicked advance/retard like you said, when the light matched at 10 BTDC, I pressed OK so it reverted back to the original timing in the map. But then the timing in the AEM reads 30-40 BTDC and the I don't even see the line on the timing belt with the light anymore (I'm assuming it's at 30-40 BTDC as well). So now I'm back at my original settings 10 with the light, and 15 in the AEM. Setting timing can't be this hard can it?

[trodNA-T93]

I tried that but with no avail. I set the timing in the AEM at 10 and I clicked advance/retard like you said, when the light matched at 10 BTDC, I pressed OK so it reverted back to the original timing in the map. But then the timing in the AEM reads 30-40 BTDC and the I don't even see the line on the timing belt with the light anymore (I'm assuming it's at 30-40 BTDC as well). So now I'm back at my original settings 10 with the light, and 15 in the AEM. Setting timing can't be this hard can it?

if the aem says your at 30 degrees then you probably really are. the timing mark will most likely not be visible at that point because its advanced far enough to not be seen. if it has a higher idle 30 degrees could be possible. just because you set your base timing at 10 degrees doesnt mean it will stay there. this is only to syncronize the ecu to the timing of the motor. this procedure is to tell the ecu where the actual position of the motor is and save it. other ems call it a timing lock. it makes your ecu fire at the same timing position every cycle no matter what you do when its in this mode. vaccum or throttle position will not change timing whatsoever try it if you dont belive me it wont hurt anything. EX: base timing is set to 10 degrees on the aem when the timing mark with the timing light reads 15 degrees. hit the retard button until it reads 10 degrees and click ok. your timing is now going to revert to whatever the VE table is set to at that point. now its up to you to tell the engine what timing to be at at what rpm and load point on the map and it SHOULD be dead on. try using the follow me checkbox on the Timing table and compare it to your DATA table. it will be dead on i promise.

also make sure the notches on the gear of the dizzy and the dizzy itself are lined up before you install it and make sure you have the motor set at 0 TDC before you put it in. also make sure your cam gears are set to TDC as well more often than not i forget to and end up being 180 Degrees out :'(

[trodNA-T93]

I have the 30-1101. I want to set the timing at 10 BTDC, not 12-13. I guess I can try manually changing the timing on the AEM, but I'm kinda apprehensive about it.
How would you go about the timing in high RPM? What if it's different at redline? How would I adjust it to match?


it sounds like your challenging the standalone function with the way a stock ecu adjusts timing. retarding base timing on a stock ecu to ten degrees while it is safer for boost is going to also retard timing through the whooooooooole rpm range. because the ECU cannot be manipulated that is the only way to adjust it but the timing map will stay the same just a few degrees behind.

AEM does NOT you are required to tune the timing by each increment of rpm and load and CANNOT adjust it by the dizzy or base timing alone. like i said earlier setting base timing is just to index the ecu to exactly what position the motor is in which wherafter will fire based on what the VE table tells it to do. you can safeley set the motor to idle at 15 degrees and get better powerband results and fuel economy based on the idea that you can adjust the top end timing to be more conservative considering really we dont care as much about timing being agressive on the low end as we do on the high. stock ecus have timing adjustment meant for emissions and idle quality adjustment and fuel economy. and it did it to the whole rpm range for that reason only as well. power output is effected but very little which is why we want standalones in the first place!


i suppose you could index it to be 15 degrees and set the timing mark at 10. but i HIGHLY shame that idea because your timing is going to be far different from what it was stock even still and wont be nearly enough adjustment probably. also your data will be incorrect in every way as far as timing goes. if you are not confident manipulating the timing table your money is better spent paying somoene to tune it or to learn how to yourself instead of paying for a broken motor. i hope this gives you a better understanding of what to do in your current situtation. i myself went through the same learning curve as you are now. and i can promise you running a standalone with just the basemap untuned is NOT a good idea.

[domantas]

bridging ports disables ecu timing control and timing stays at 10* in any rpm range?

[trodNA-T93]

bridging ports disables ecu timing control and timing stays at 10* in any rpm range?

Im not 100% firm on this but back when i was on a stock ecu anywhere close to idle it locks it to whatever youve set base timing i know for sure. when id rev it a little it would still sit at 15 if i set it there or ten if i changed it to that. reving it super high i never checked. but ive heard of people having a switch that will bridge them for boost or nitrous to pull tons of timing. which btw i think is not smart :dunno:

[mtran]

Just redid my timing and I got the timing light to match what AEM is saying. The only problem is they both say 8-9. I want to set it dead on at 10. Do I have to modify the timing map to get that or is there some other way?

[mtran]

Bump.
I didn't get to thank everybody for all the help, I think I almost got the timing adjustment down. But I still have that problem I noted on the post above. Do I have to edit the timing/ignition whatever map in order to change the timing itself?

[SealSupra-6]

Hey, bud in order to get the timing on your car to be the same as the time on AEM jump the terminals like the manual says, then you have to go into the aem timing window and LOCK the timing to 10. Next go out to the engine and using the timing light, adjust the distributor until you see 10 degrees on the crank. Just lock the window when your done, don't do anything else. Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, I did not read the whole thread. Let em know if you need more help. Thanks

[mtran]

Hey, bud in order to get the timing on your car to be the same as the time on AEM jump the terminals like the manual says, then you have to go into the aem timing window and LOCK the timing to 10. Next go out to the engine and using the timing light, adjust the distributor until you see 10 degrees on the crank. Just lock the window when your done, don't do anything else. Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, I did not read the whole thread. Let em know if you need more help. Thanks

Thanks but I already got that part down. Both the light and the AEM match timing. Just need to set both of those to 10 but I have no idea how to.

[SealSupra-6]

Hey if you followed the instructions I gave you and the timing light is still not reading 10 BTDC, you will have to remove the distributor and reinstall it because you might be a tooth off. Are you using the first distributor wire for the timing light?

[trodNA-T93]

Hey, bud in order to get the timing on your car to be the same as the time on AEM jump the terminals like the manual says, then you have to go into the aem timing window and LOCK the timing to 10. Next go out to the engine and using the timing light, adjust the distributor until you see 10 degrees on the crank. Just lock the window when your done, don't do anything else. Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, I did not read the whole thread. Let em know if you need more help. Thanks


Thanks but I already got that part down. Both the light and the AEM match timing. Just need to set both of those to 10 but I have no idea how to.



this procedure is incorrect. please show me in the manual if im wrong but i have never had to jump the terminals and you should not have to adjust your dizzy period! it could be like 3 teeth off and it wont matter. there is an advance and retard button in the timing lock window where you should have locked your timing at say 10 degrees THIS REPLACES THE NEED TO ADJUST THE DIZZY!!!. depending on how far off you will need to check fine for small adjustments and coarse for large once the timing light is dead on to where you set it to you are done.

[trodNA-T93]

Just redid my timing and I got the timing light to match what AEM is saying. The only problem is they both say 8-9. I want to set it dead on at 10. Do I have to modify the timing map to get that or is there some other way?

sounds like you got it pretty much figured out good job! :biggrin: your timing light and ignition on aem data are about dead on where you need to be sounds like. your timing map may need adjustment to make them both read 10. also consider if your map reads ten and your ballpark 8-9 degrees you may have some ignition trims for coolant temp or ect. applied to the base map your using. now its time to tune that sucker for optimal effeciency good luck!

[CorrPerformance]

this procedure is incorrect. please show me in the manual if im wrong but i have never had to jump the terminals and you should not have to adjust your dizzy period! it could be like 3 teeth off and it wont matter. there is an advance and retard button in the timing lock window where you should have locked your timing at say 10 degrees THIS REPLACES THE NEED TO ADJUST THE DIZZY!!!. depending on how far off you will need to check fine for small adjustments and coarse for large once the timing light is dead on to where you set it to you are done.

this is the same thing i was wondering.