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TT and N/a Auto Tranny Differences: Everything you wanted to know about the A340E
Old 07-23-2007, 03:42 AM   #1
Dramon
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TT and N/a Auto Tranny Differences: Everything you wanted to know about the A340E

INTRODUCTION

The A340E we will be discussing came mated to both the 2JZ-GTE (TT Supra and Aristo) and 2JZ-GE(SC300 and Non-Turbo Supra). It also came in the 4runner, Tacoma, and some Jeeps and Volvos. The A340 is different than the A341 which came in SC400s and LS400s, with the short explanation of the differences is that the A341 has a slightly longer 1st gear.

The bellhousings of the TT auto and N/A autos will both bolt up to the 2jz, however on a visual inspection the TT bellhousing is slightly larger to clear the larger TT torque converter.

While I am not sure how similar the A340E from the SC300 is to the A341E in the SC400 I would imagine the link below which is about swapping input shafts. Theoretically though you should be able to swap the input shafts on the two trannies which would allow you to retain your SC300 torque converter, flexplate, and flexplate bolts.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/archi.../t-336619.html

The tailshafts are also different with the n/a tranny having a hole for the driveshaft to slip into and the TT auto having a bolt on flange. Swapping tailshafts is much harder though as you'd need to literally disassemble the entire transmission to swap the tailshafts.

Here is a thread which should give you a general idea of what you'd need to do to swap tailshafts.

http://www.supras.nl/index.php?optio...d=35&Itemid=52

Links
http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost..._DIAGNOSIS.PDF

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/AT08.pdf



DIFFERENCES


TT Auto

- HP Limit -425-450 w/ a good cooler.
- Valve body has 4 solenoids, the 4th solenoid controls line pressure electronically. This allows smoother shift modulation.
- Has a larger torque converter that is more efficient.
- TT torque converter requires use of a TT flexplate and TT flexplate bolts.
- Driveshaft bolts onto the transmission to a 3 bolt flange.
- Has a different input shaft than the n/a tranny.
- Has more clutch packs than the n/a auto.
- Valve body solenoids activate linearly allowing more precise transmission control.


N/A Auto


- HP Limit : ~325-350 w/ a good cooler
- Transmission line pressure is controlled by a cable and only has 3 solenoids in the valve body.
- Has a slip type tailshaft housing for the driveshaft. Driveshaft slips into the transmission itself.
- Valve body solenoids have an on and off activation.

The biggest problem with the n/a auto's in our cars is the fact that it has an extremely low HP limit.

You can shim the accumulators in the N/A auto which allows for quicker shifts, reducing the amount of time the clutch packs slip and therefore creates less heat allowing for more hp. But the problem with n/a A340's compared to the TT auto is there is a limit to shimming in the fact that it simply doesn't have enough clutch packs to hold much power.

So far, people with n/a auto's don't have many options when it comes to stronger tranny's. BL and many other companies offer rebuilds that allow for a higher hp limit but these services generally cost around 2 grand and can't hold much more than the stock TT auto, which isnt' very much more considering how much it costs. In these services the most notable change is they swap out the clutch packs with raybestos blue plate clutch packs which are stronger.

When you shim the accumulators however, you should may want to consider shimming the 1-2 shift a little less agressively because the next weakness in the tranny after clutch packs is the 2nd gear sprague and hard 1-2 shifts can break it.

The reason swapping a TT auto is complicated is because of the line pressure issue with the valve bodies. Believe it or not, the cable the n/a auto has is NOT a kickdown cable but a cable to control line pressure. The problem with the TT tranny is line pressure is controlled electronically via a solenoid. The solenoid is linearly controlled and allows for more precise line pressure control. So far, the only way to control the TT tranny is with an AEM, however.

A 1500 dollar solution to simple transmission control. Latent Solutions makes the 'suprastick' tranny controller but it will only work with the n/a valve body, ie: valve bodies with mechanical line pressure.

Pictures
The TT tranny is the bottom tranny and the n/a tranny is the top tranny. Here you can see the differences in the tailshafts and that the two trannies are almost identical internally.


Closeup of an n/a tranny.


Closeup of a TT tranny.


The TT valve body is on the bottom and the N/A valve body is on top. You can tell the TT valve body is much larger and doesnt have the two tubes going into the back part of the tranny. One of these tubes sends fluid to the B3 accumulator while the other one sends fluid to lubricate the tailshaft.


This is a picture of an n/a tranny's clutchpacks.


Here you can see that the TT tranny has more clutchpacks.


All the n/a hardware (valve body, mechanical line pressure cable, and solenoids) bolt right into the TT tranny.



You'll need to swap the wiring harness for the valve body though.


Wiring harness comes out easy, just swap the n/a for the TT one.


The TT tranny has a simple plug where the cable for line pressure goes into the n/a tranny. Simply pull out the plug and swap the cable into the TT tranny.


You also need to swap the gear selectors.


The accumulator on the far right bottom by itself away from the other cluster of 3 accumulators needs to be swapped with the n/a one and springs. When swapping in the n/a valve body you dont need the cap that comes with the TT one.


I plan on however, swapping the valve body from a non-turbo A340 into a TT A340 so I can have the extra clutch packs AND the mechanical line pressure control, so I don't have to go AEM.

More to come!

Last edited by Dramon : 08-27-2007 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:07 AM   #2
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Thanks for the great info. It's nice to have it all summarized in one place for ease of referring.

So, you're saying that if we have a local shop shim the accumulators in the N/A auto which allows for quicker shifts & replace the clutch packs with Raybestos blue plate clutch packs which are stronger you pretty much have a BL tranny at a fraction of the cost, no shipping charges and quicker turn around? What is it that I heard about a certain part that was breaking that they've addressed which is what caused the overall price to go up a couple hundred bucks?
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer
Thanks for the great info. It's nice to have it all summarized in one place for ease of referring.

So, you're saying that if we have a local shop shim the accumulators in the N/A auto which allows for quicker shifts & replace the clutch packs with Raybestos blue plate clutch packs which are stronger you pretty much have a BL tranny at a fraction of the cost, no shipping charges and quicker turn around? What is it that I heard about a certain part that was breaking that they've addressed which is what caused the overall price to go up a couple hundred bucks?
If you believe that....your in for a Big surprise. Its the second gear sprague that causes most problems.


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Old 07-24-2007, 03:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SecretSC
If you believe that....your in for a Big surprise. Its the second gear sprague that causes most problems.


gadgetSC
Just for clarification, I basically asked two questions so I'm a little confused by your answer.

You're saying that BL has a 2nd gear sprague that is more durable and makes the BL tranny worth it's price tag or that they have no 'mystery' part that will save the transmission and be worth the price tag, shipping and turn around wait.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer
Thanks for the great info. It's nice to have it all summarized in one place for ease of referring.

So, you're saying that if we have a local shop shim the accumulators in the N/A auto which allows for quicker shifts & replace the clutch packs with Raybestos blue plate clutch packs which are stronger you pretty much have a BL tranny at a fraction of the cost, no shipping charges and quicker turn around? What is it that I heard about a certain part that was breaking that they've addressed which is what caused the overall price to go up a couple hundred bucks?
The n/a auto honestly just sucks, even if you build it. It still sucks.

I would just recommend shimming the accumulators yourself. The clutch packs are a bit more involved and honestly for how much they cost and will take to get in and can hold, youre better off just going TT tranny.

This isn't about running R154 amounts of HP, but im hoping it to be a good alternative to manual swap or built tranny. 400-450 isn't bone crushing amounts of hp, but its way more than we can currently push.

And SecretSC is right, I forgot to add that but after the clutch packs going out the tranny's weakness is the 2nd gear sprague.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:21 PM   #6
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So the auto tranny that BL sells is actually a TT transmission then, right?
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:31 PM   #7
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IIRC they build an n/a version and a TT version.

However, 99% of the time when people refer to a BL built tranny, it's a TT one.
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Old 08-14-2007, 04:11 AM   #8
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Thread updated with pics. 10 points for anyone who can guess the brand of shoe i'm wearing in the pics.
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:57 AM   #9
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So you just coverted the TT transmission to kick down cable. Thats cool, and cheap for a tranny that can hold about 500rwhp. Didnt know the parts were interchangeable.
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What about the driveshaft?
Old 08-17-2007, 10:47 PM   #10
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What about the driveshaft?

What are you going to use for a driveshaft? Do you have a link to show how your suppose to shim the accumulators and how the spacers should look? I might be able to fabricate them for everyone.
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Old 08-27-2007, 11:00 AM   #11
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DRIVESHAFT

The TT and N/A driveshafts are very different. The TT tranny and driveshaft connect using a 3 bolt propeller flange (Aristo or SC400) or a 4 bolt donut flange(Supra TT), while the n/a driveshaft slides into the transmission itself. The 3 and 4 bolt versions of the TT flange are interchangeable. However, to swap a n/a tailshaft onto a TT tranny you will pretty much have to disassemble the entire transmission itself from the front to back and is not really worth the time or effort when you can just swap driveshafts instead.

If youre swapping a TT tranny into an SC300 then you will need to use an SC400 driveshaft becuase the Supra TT driveshaft is not long enough. However, the flex couplers and u-joints have been known to break at higher horsepower levels. Though, i'm sure they will last a lot longer if you don't go around doing powerstalls. At the same time there have also been reports of the flex couplers being able to hold extremely high HP numbers. Ultimately the biggest factor in how much HP they can take is what condition they are in, so you might want to consider buying completely new ones when doing a TT tranny swap. This would also be a good time to just take your driveshaft to a local driveshaft shop and have them make it into a 1piece because most used driveshafts are seeing their age and probably are going to need a new carrier bearing soon as well.

Here is a picture of a SC400 driveshaft next to a custom 1piece driveshaft.

Picture property of SecretSC

Here is a picture of the flex couplers that connect the driveshaft to the transmission and driveshaft.

Picture property of SecretSC

Last edited by Dramon : 01-31-2008 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 02-27-2008, 03:00 AM   #12
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ok, so if i buy a TT automatic tranny, and i have a NA automatic tranny in a 95 supra, i need what to put it in? either a custom driveshaft or to swap the tailshaft? is that it? one or the other? i have an aem so i can control it no problem, but i just want to make sure i know what to do and how to plan what i need to buy. i have an NA tranny laying around i can tinker with to take of the tail shaft, and then i could always have someone take the TTs off and then i'd be set. or i pay this transmission place somewhere around 400-500 dollars for a custom driveshaft... the tts tranny will be built by BL anyway, so maybe i could send it to them while they have it apart...
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:32 PM   #13
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If you're na 2jz, I wouldn't bother with BL mod's. If you're 2jzgte auto, BL is a good solution to run higher horse power 400whp++. The electronically controlled solenoid for shifting seems to work quite well. I actually had a friend with an IS300 running 150 shots, and his auto tranny did fine. The IS300's auto tranny is also controlled electronically via a solenoid, similar if not exact to the tt auto tranny. So again if you're na auto 2jz non ECT, don't bother with the BL mod' tranny, because it'll still go out fast at around 400whp. Go for the auto tt tranny, and again use the aem to control the shifting. Other than that option, you might want to consider manual, or the American auto trannies (forgot what is was called).
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300SC View Post
If you're na 2jz, I wouldn't bother with BL mod's. If you're 2jzgte auto, BL is a good solution to run higher horse power 400whp++. The electronically controlled solenoid for shifting seems to work quite well. I actually had a friend with an IS300 running 150 shots, and his auto tranny did fine. The IS300's auto tranny is also controlled electronically via a solenoid, similar if not exact to the tt auto tranny. So again if you're na auto 2jz non ECT, don't bother with the BL mod' tranny, because it'll still go out fast at around 400whp. Go for the auto tt tranny, and again use the aem to control the shifting. Other than that option, you might want to consider manual, or the American auto trannies (forgot what is was called).
Can we control the tt ecu with a jdm aristo ecu? I figure that would kill my speed density and trans swap birds with one stone. Surely I would have to run a wire to the ecu to control line pressure right?
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:56 PM   #15
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so what is the difference between a 1jz auto and a tt 2jz auto.. will i need to still swap the kickdown cable, valve body, na harness, shims, and 2 hoses into the tt auto in order to run it in my sc300 1jzgte (of course driveshaft too.) and will i still need to worry about the 4th solenoid?
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyastro View Post
so what is the difference between a 1jz auto and a tt 2jz auto.. will i need to still swap the kickdown cable, valve body, na harness, shims, and 2 hoses into the tt auto in order to run it in my sc300 1jzgte (of course driveshaft too.) and will i still need to worry about the 4th solenoid?
1JZ auto is essentially an n/a Auto with more clutchpacks. You should just keep your 1JZ auto as you should be able to put the same amount of power through it as you would a TT auto. Think of a 1JZ auto as a hybrid between an n/a auto and TT auto.

n/a auto - manual valve body, fewer clutchpacks, n/a TC, n/a driveshaft
1jz auto - manual valve body, more clutchpacks, n/a TC, n/a driveshaft
TT auto - electric valve body, more clutchpacks, TT TC, TT/SC400 driveshaft

Basically using your 1JZ auto will save you the trouble of having to get an SC400 driveshaft and should give you roughly the same thing.
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dramon View Post
1JZ auto is essentially an n/a Auto with more clutchpacks. You should just keep your 1JZ auto as you should be able to put the same amount of power through it as you would a TT auto. Think of a 1JZ auto as a hybrid between an n/a auto and TT auto.

n/a auto - manual valve body, fewer clutchpacks, n/a TC, n/a driveshaft
1jz auto - manual valve body, more clutchpacks, n/a TC, n/a driveshaft
TT auto - electric valve body, more clutchpacks, TT TC, TT/SC400 driveshaft

Basically using your 1JZ auto will save you the trouble of having to get an SC400 driveshaft and should give you roughly the same thing.
OMFG Dude, that is great info and should be posted on clublexus forums. I just ordered my 1jz swap and was wondering what the deal was. I figured I was going to have to wait till I got the swap to determine weather or not I would need the sc400 shaft. Most of the discussion is angled towards running m/t, or coverting to one. For me that is not ever going to be an option. I have owned shifter cars my whole life, and finally got an a/t car. I love it and its going to stay that way.

Once again great info, thanks!
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:31 PM   #18
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my 1jz auto lasted about 100miles and now slips in everygear with a shift kit installed. i am now using a n/a auto and it is holding it all.
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyastro View Post
my 1jz auto lasted about 100miles and now slips in everygear with a shift kit installed. i am now using a n/a auto and it is holding it all.
A 1JZ tranny should technically be stronger than an n/a tranny. Your 1jz auto might have gotten abused beforehand. But like you said in the other thread its all about how you drive the tranny when it comes to how long it lasts.
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyastro View Post
my 1jz auto lasted about 100miles and now slips in everygear with a shift kit installed. i am now using a n/a auto and it is holding it all.
damn, guess I should keep mine? I was planning on selling it, and I have my ge motor on ebay right now. Maybe ill throw it in the car, and tear down and inspect/rebuild the 1jz bullshit before I throw it in the car.
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:22 AM   #21
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damn, guess I should keep mine? I was planning on selling it, and I have my ge motor on ebay right now. Maybe ill throw it in the car, and tear down and inspect/rebuild the 1jz bullshit before I throw it in the car.
Make sure you use Toyota Type-IV tranny fluid. Honestly, if you have the garage space you should keep a spare tranny around at all times as a "just in case"
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:12 PM   #22
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Okay so how is everything working out? I'm very curious since I am picking up a NA Auto Mk4. Plan on going na-t. And I absolutely don't want to go aem.
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Old 05-02-2008, 12:13 AM   #23
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for the record i have an AEM, so if anyone knows what i have to do to get it running the TT automatic than shoot. 95 na-t supra and i am dropping a built tt that will hold 700whp+ but i have to get a custom driveshaft for it first. i just dont want to run into any unforseen "dude you shoulda done this first" type problems. my cars already been sitting a week and a half
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Old 05-02-2008, 08:12 AM   #24
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buy a valve body off me and internal harness with cable and call it a day.
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Are Driveshafts Interchangeable? Sc400 Supra TT Auto
Old 05-27-2008, 05:41 PM   #25
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Are Driveshafts Interchangeable? Sc400 Supra TT Auto

I have a 1993.5 Supra MKIV NA Auto. I also have a JDM Aristo/Supra 2jzgte motorset with auto TT tranny. That I plan on installing real soon.
I would like to know if the 2 piece driveshaft from a Lexus SC400 would be a direct swap for a Supra Auto TT? Or is it too long or short? Are they Interchangeable?
Another note is... My other car is a Lexus SC400 and the driveshaft input to the transmission are the exact same as TT auto Supra's.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:36 PM   #26
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the tranny is the same and the driveshaft on a sc400 is about 2 inches longer than a supra but there is a nut you can loosen and it can be lengthened and shortened.
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Old 05-28-2008, 02:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
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the tranny is the same and the driveshaft on a sc400 is about 2 inches longer than a supra but there is a nut you can loosen and it can be lengthened and shortened.
So if I loosen that nut on the driveshaft of the SC400 and shortened it a whole (hopefuly) 2 inches this would work perfect on a MKIV with Auto TT.
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:00 PM   #28
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i put the tt in and switched the valvebody with the shiftkit shims and such and got a whole 15 miles on it before no forward gears and only reverse.
i was at the light and it went 5 feet and nothing. you can hear it sliding in it but nothing. i took the tranny out yesterday and the clutches looked fine in the OD and such but the forward direct clutches are gone. would that do it or what. i think the tranny was shot when i got it and when i raised the line pressure and the shift kit, it allowed it to work for a few until it killed itself the rest of the way.
i am going to leave the line pressure alone and shim it from 6mm to 4mm and leave it alone.
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:32 PM   #29
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i want to go 1jz auto in my sc400, are there any trannys that can hold more than 500hp? or should i stick with the 1jz auto, which i believe u guys said could hold up to 450?
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Old 06-16-2008, 02:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
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i want to go 1jz auto in my sc400, are there any trannys that can hold more than 500hp? or should i stick with the 1jz auto, which i believe u guys said could hold up to 450?
Yes, you can send your 1jz trans to boost logic to have it built or you can adapt a GM tranny that can hold anything you throw at it.
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